Kazaiah Sterling Pt 1 - Tottenham Rondos, England & More! The Debut Episode of the Back Stick Podcast! - E1

In the debut episode of the Back Stick Podcast, Jamil Roberts and Dom Okus sit down with Kazaiah Sterling, a former player of Tottenham, Tormenta FC and currently of Pittsburgh Riverhounds, to discuss his journey through football. Kazaiah shares insights about his time in the Tottenham Academy, the challenges he faced during his loans, and his transition to playing in the US. He reflects on the importance of resilience, the impact of injuries, and the joy of rediscovering his love for the game in a new environment.

Part 2 Coming Very Soon...

00:00 Introduction and Background of Kazaiah Sterling

02:58 First Experiences Of America

04:09 Early Football Journey and Trials

11:12 Clout of a Spurs Schoolboy Footballer

13:36 First Session with Tottenham First Team

14:56 Rondo Nightmares

16:09 The Reality of Professional Football

18:13 Life at Tottenham U18s

21:06 Reflections on Youth Football Experience

23:33 Cleaning Harry Kane's Boots

24:29 Academy Manager & Mental Toughness

26:10 The Impact of Loans on Development

27:36 First Team Football Changing Rooms

28:47 Changing Dynamics in Youth Football

30:10 Pressure of Loan Expectations

32:11 First England Call Up & FA Youth Cup Memories

35:14 Getting Sent Home From International Duty

39:44 Sunderland Loan

43:06 First Professional Goal

45:01 Injuries & COVID Struggles

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Transcript

Jamil Roberts (00:01)
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Back stick Podcast. I'm here as usual with Dom Ocas and today we're joined by my former teammate at Tormentor, Mr. Kazaiah Sterling. Kaz, how you doing, mate?

Kazaiah Sterling (00:12)
I'm Good thanks, how you been?

Jamil Roberts (00:14)
Yeah, good pal, good pal. Dom, how are you?

Dom Okus (00:16)
Yeah, not bad, mate. Long day at work, long last day at work, but looking forward to this conversation. I've got my fellow Londoner in the building here, so looking forward to it,

Jamil Roberts (00:21)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I figured this one would be a fun one for you too. Yeah, well, I mean, just to quickly on yourself Kaz, you know, we've got currently at Pittsburgh Riverhounds, like Dom, involved in the Tottenham Academy, graduate of that system, Champions League debut, moved over, had a little time in non-league, Tormentor, USL One champion, USL One final MVP.

Dom Okus (00:29)
Yeah man, 100%. 100%.

Jamil Roberts (00:51)
top goalscorer of all time until went into history and now you find yourself at Pittsburgh. You've had quite a good career so far mate, ain't ya?

Dom Okus (00:58)
collids.

Kazaiah Sterling (00:59)
Yeah, so far, it's been going decent so far. Obviously, in football you always want to improve and look to do it at different levels. yeah, so far, just grateful for the opportunities I've had so far, to be honest.

Jamil Roberts (01:00)
Hahaha!

Yeah, definitely, definitely. you know, I will say before, you know, I bring Dom in and whatever, I actually, I actually wasn't sure. We signed around a similar times. And I remember when we got into preseason mad late. And yeah, I came in the day before you in preseason. And I remember myself and the rest of the lads were thinking, fucking hell, this lad from Tottenham, he's going to be big time as fuck. Fuck.

Kazaiah Sterling (01:26)
you

Mm-hmm.

Bro you know what, everyone says that so literally everyone.

Jamil Roberts (01:44)
But I'll be honest, one of the nicest people I've ever met in football, so I'm happy to have you on,

Kazaiah Sterling (01:52)
No, I appreciate that. Literally everyone said that. Everyone thought, he's going to be a dickhead. You know how people are.

Jamil Roberts (01:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, but mate, you're not being funny. Like, Tottenham to South Georgia's a bit of a change, really.

Kazaiah Sterling (02:06)
Brazy fam, yeah, brazy.

Dom Okus (02:10)
But was that it? Was that it? That had you heard anything about him or was it just the fact that obviously he'd come from Spurs and now he was at Tormenta that you thought, you know, he might be a bit big time.

Jamil Roberts (02:19)
Nah, was really just the CV. And you think, you know, I think I had a pretty good grasp on what the USL was and what it can be at times. And I knew sort of what I was getting into when I signed for Tormento and everything. And I just thought this lad's gonna be shell shocked.

Kazaiah Sterling (02:36)
You

Jamil Roberts (02:41)
But I'll be honest, as I said from day one, he just took it in his stride and this and that. I would love to know as we get into it later in the show your first impressions of it. yeah, must have been a shock.

Kazaiah Sterling (02:50)
Mm-hmm.

No, 100%, yeah. I didn't really know much about America in general. Like, I thought... Yeah, yeah, yeah, because we had the tournament in IMG 2016, 2017, so we played that IMG thing and I was just like... When I was out, I was like, this is just so sick, that. Just like the vibe, just like, yeah, just really enjoyed the weather as well. It was in December and it was like, what the hell, I was like, what? I was like...

Jamil Roberts (03:01)
Yeah. But you always said you wanted to come, didn't you?

Yeah.

Yeah, but that was in Florida,

Kazaiah Sterling (03:24)
Yeah, no, No, it's just, winter's coming, they can feel it, they already got the hoodie on. The temperature's dropping, fam.

Dom Okus (03:24)
Yeah, It's not like that where you are now,

Jamil Roberts (03:35)
That's not like Dom in Austin. He's still got it roasting.

Dom Okus (03:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, mate, think it hit 30 degrees Celsius today, which for our American listeners is like in the 90s, I think. 90 Fahrenheit, just about, so yeah, it's nice.

Kazaiah Sterling (03:43)
time.

the degree stuff that still confuses me that they are damn it's 80 today i'm not let me just check my phone man i'm not even gonna bother do the math for that

Jamil Roberts (03:52)
Yeah, I still use Google, mate.

Dom Okus (03:52)
Yeah

That's good. That is close. That is close.

Jamil Roberts (04:05)
wow. That's good. Yeah. obviously Kaz, Kaz, you grew up in Tottenham, right? Actually in Tottenham, from Tottenham. So how far is that from you,

Kazaiah Sterling (04:12)
Mm-hmm.

Dom Okus (04:17)
Probably about 15 or 20 minutes, so not too far. And like you touched on earlier, I was actually part of Spurs youth academy. So when I was there, which is young years, the training ground was in Middleton House, which is in Enfield. And then you had Spurs Lodge, which was in East, just outside of East, that Chigwell, that Essex area.

Jamil Roberts (04:21)
Sweet.

Kazaiah Sterling (04:35)
I'm living in a house, yeah.

Mm-hmm Yeah, she go yeah

Dom Okus (04:43)
So obviously, going to Spurs Lodge during the week was nice, but when you had to go Middleton House at games on the weekend, long. Long for me personally. But was you, because you must have been there when they had the transition to the new training ground,

Kazaiah Sterling (04:51)
Mm.

Yeah, so literally the season I was like trialling was at the Los... I call that a bit of Spurs Lodge. yeah, the season I came was at 20, I think it was 2010, 2011. So they was like moving the next season. Well, they wasn't moving, we had to move to Frankfurt. We ended up moving to like a temporary.

So we was there for a couple of seasons and then we moved back to... It's basically the same thing, middle of the house, it's the same place but they just renamed it and built around it and stuff.

Dom Okus (05:31)
And so just to take it back a step before you even get to Spurs, like was you playing the Sunday league thing? you at like a different academy before you got to Spurs? And what's what age were you when you was at Spurs?

Kazaiah Sterling (05:38)
Yeah, I was at Leone Orient. So I was at Leone Orient from under 9s to under 11s and then that under 11 season towards the end I moved to Tonno.

Dom Okus (05:52)
Okay, okay, okay. How does that work? like, they scout you from playing for Orion or did you like know one of the coaches at Spurs? How did happen?

Jamil Roberts (05:52)
Okay, okay.

Kazaiah Sterling (06:01)
To be fair, my younger age, I didn't really know what was going on. It was a turn up and play football. So I just, my dad just dealt with all of that. But I think someone, someone had contacted him from like the games at Oren and then I came in, came in on trial. It was at the end of the season as well. So there's like, there's hella kids on trial, like crazy amount of kids at the time, maybe like 20, 30. So it was just like, which made it a bit easier in terms of just like.

making friends and that's what aspects that I wasn't really thinking all these are all my competition it's like everyone's in like the same sort of boat so like you know settles the nerves a bit sort of thing.

Dom Okus (06:44)
Jammu, is you gonna say something before I ask that question?

Jamil Roberts (06:47)
Yeah, no, I, you know what? I heard a rumor, right? And I've never heard this from your mouth. So I actually wanted to ask, this is pre Tottenham. I'm talking pre Layton Orient. Is it true that your P.E teacher at school got you a move to Orient when you were a kid? Wow. What's his name? Mr. Hart. I love that. What was the process? did it, was he a coach at Orient or?

Kazaiah Sterling (07:00)
Yes, yes, yes. Big shout out to Mr. Hart, Mr. Hart, Adam Hart. I still call him Mr. Hart I'm always gonna call him Mr. Hart for the rest of my life. Adam Hart, yeah. So he's just, yeah, he was a coach, he was a goalie coach at Orient. So he done all that, the young age groups, academy stuff. then obviously that see me play in the playground, P.E and stuff. then...

One day, think Mukta had already been playing for L.A. this time. because Mukta was a year above me, so he'd already got that Mukta signed up and stuff. So then like, yeah, he just like gave me this letter, said he wants me to come. It was like a trial as well, so I went to the trial and then the next, the following year I signed. So this was, I was in year three at the time, so that would have been that U8's I guess. And then, moving into the next season.

That's what I was.

Jamil Roberts (07:56)
Where would you be now? Hearty man, Mr Hart the legend.

Kazaiah Sterling (07:58)
Who knows? No, legend, legend, legend, yeah.

Dom Okus (08:05)
Love that, love that. So just to quickly go back to the Tottenham trial. So you said there was like 20, 30 players on trial. So was that they were basically scouting for like a whole new team in that or was it only going to sign a couple of players?

Kazaiah Sterling (08:11)
Yeah.

I guess just a couple of players, yeah. they have, cause they have that academy and that development system as well. So I guess they, anyone who wants to be in academy, they want to be in the academy, they put through and then anyone they think is good, but like not quite there, yeah, they put them in that, the development thing. So then I guess that if guys improve, they're still under their system so they can bring them up.

sort of thing so yeah because a few of the players that that that were trying and ended up going to the development a few of them later on like ended up coming back as well so it's like i guess that's how they that kind of keep players involved instead of just saying no then they go somewhere else

Dom Okus (08:44)
makes sense.

right?

That sense. And then just for people who are listening who aren't maybe familiar with the UK system. So typically people go for like a six week trial. So was that the case for you? Six week trial and then did it take six weeks for you to get signed up? I've heard some crazy stories. People on trial for six months, people getting signed after one session. It runs the gambit. So what was it like for you?

Kazaiah Sterling (09:11)
Mm-hmm.

Jamil Roberts (09:19)
Bro, the amount of stories, bro, the amount of players that have wasted time, wasted so much time, it's crazy.

Kazaiah Sterling (09:21)
Yeah, for me,

I think mine was definitely around six, because I got signed at the end of the season. And I think if I remember correctly, I went on loan around, I mean, I went on trial around February-ish, March. So I got signed at the end of that season. that transition was kind of smooth because I moved into secondary and I moved into Tottenham. So I was just in a transition phase in all aspects of life at that time. So which was kind of good as well for me.

Dom Okus (09:30)
Crazy bro.

Sick, sick, sick.

Kazaiah Sterling (09:58)
Well, yeah, mine was like more or less six weeks. But like you said, some guys that I'm friends with, one session, they just said, yeah, he's in. Crazy one, Marcus, I remember he was on trial for ages. He was saying, yeah. So he's one that they had on trial for ages. Look how good he is. The fact he's on trial for ages is crazy. Jaffa at 10 Ganga, he got signed straight away. Couple of plays in between.

Jamil Roberts (10:12)
Marcus Edwards. Yeah.

crazy to think about. Yeah.

Kazaiah Sterling (10:28)
guys got released from trials. I'll say probably around, wait who me? Just on the trial. Yeah, probably around six weeks ish.

Jamil Roberts (10:29)
Was you there for a while?

Yeah, yeah, on trial. How long is your trial?

Dom Okus (10:44)
Yeah, I think that's pretty standard. think when I was there, I got signed going into the Under 9 season. like they're there, it was like a big cohort of players, similar to what you're describing, because probably like 20, 30 players. But they're scouting for a whole team of Under 9s, so maybe, I don't know, they're going to sign 12 or 13 players. So I probably got signed after like three or four weeks.

Jamil Roberts (10:45)
You're in decent company.

Kazaiah Sterling (10:45)
for that.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dom Okus (11:10)
with a bunch of other players who ended up getting signed, which is interesting. But something I want to just touch on quickly, because you mentioned going to Tottenham and going into year seven. What was it like for you going to school as a year seven in Tottenham saying that you play for Tottenham? Was that just like a mad badge of honour? We all know what it's like, right? Being an academy player in school and the clout, we call it that, that it gives you. So what was that like?

Kazaiah Sterling (11:27)
Mm-hmm.

You know, it's mad. didn't, I don't know why, but I didn't tell people I played for Tottenham until like maybe like a few months in. Until like, this is like, yeah, I used to tell people I just played for Leighton Orange still, just like, cause I wasn't trying to like, I wasn't trying to like boast about anything, like just like, not even that, I just sort of wasn't trying to, I don't want to be that guy like, running around, I'll play for Tottenham, I'll play for Tottenham, you know what mean? It's like, that's not, that's not really me. So like.

Jamil Roberts (11:50)
so bovved. You're so bovved it's ridiculous.

Yeah.

Kazaiah Sterling (12:01)
Obviously, I just like, I'd play football in the playground, people are like, must be at a team. I'd just say that later in the morning. Then after a while, I like got out of that, I played for Tottenham and just like,

Jamil Roberts (12:12)
Yeah, I mean, we've touched on it before, haven't we Dom? yeah. That's probably true.

Kazaiah Sterling (12:13)
That saved me, that did save me. That saved me from a few beat downs, 100%. From a couple of the oldest. Saved me. He's good, he he kicks football, he's good, he's good. Cause I didn't have no older brothers of that as well, so like, I was going into secondary, no protection, just gave me this.

Dom Okus (12:19)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Jamil Roberts (12:26)
Fuck.

Yeah, the year seven. Yeah, the year seven target. Yeah, because we've talked about it before, haven't we Dom, about just how many teams there are in London as well. So it baffles me the fact that, like, if anything, you're talking down playing for Leian Orient. Do you know what mean? The fact that it seemed to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but no one really cared how he plays for Leian Orient, whatever.

Kazaiah Sterling (12:38)
Yeah, it's pee from down.

Yeah, Loki,

Yeah, some people might even know what Lane Oren is, that sort of thing as well. Unless you like, watch football like that.

Jamil Roberts (13:05)
Yeah, yeah.

Got ya, got ya.

Dom Okus (13:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Yeah, like you're even just sparking a thought in my mind. It's like how we would rank players. Like they're all really good, but like this boy might play for like Colchester and then this guy plays for West Ham and then that guy plays for Chelsea. So like he's the guy guy. You know what mean? So it's interesting.

Kazaiah Sterling (13:29)
That's yeah, that's what she was. Yeah.

100%.

Jamil Roberts (13:35)
Yeah, that's sick. So obviously you spend a bit of time at Tottenham in the academy and you work your way up through. And I want to touch on that first time, that transition where you train with the first team. How old were you?

Kazaiah Sterling (13:49)
I'm pretty sure I a first year, first year scholar so I would have been 16.

Jamil Roberts (13:55)
Mm-hmm.

Kazaiah Sterling (13:59)
F**king hell. like, yeah. Peak, peak, man. In terms of fitness, because obviously I wasn't like the most, like growing up in the academy, the coaches did used to say that to me a lot. Like I was like one of them players that throughout the session were doing passing drills. I'm just like, where's the game? I just want game goals, like finishing anything.

some sort of like finishing in it. That's when I come to life. So I'll be worst player throughout the whole session. We do games, best player now. And my head of academy said, you can't do that. You can't just turn it on. And I wouldn't really get what they meant, but I'm like, they'll say like a first team manager will just chalk you off before you even get the chance to show that. you got something.

And then it didn't really, really click until maybe 16s when I used to train up with the under 18s. And then I'd be like losing balls, stuff like that. And then first team, when I trained with the first team, my God. From the start, run they do, run those at the warm up. Season ticket in the middle. Season ticket. And, it's like, it's not, it's not just run those bob, it's not bob, it's a drill. Like this is the drill, run those bob in it. You have to press like.

Dom Okus (15:05)
HAHAHAHA

Kazaiah Sterling (15:16)
you have to press you and they're bopping it and then you're pressing it Meg's bam now you're in again.

Dom Okus (15:23)
So talk to me like who's in that rondo, that first rondo, if you can remember who's in there with you.

Kazaiah Sterling (15:30)
I remember was Chadli was there, Andros Townsend, Hugh Ross was there at the time. I think it might have been Danny Rose might have been in there. It might have been an international break because there was a few guys definitely not there. 100 % there was a few guys definitely not there. But those are the ones that I really remember. I think Clinton N'Jie was there at the time. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (15:57)
The winger. Yeah.

Kazaiah Sterling (16:01)
I can't remember everyone but I just know I was getting bopped in there like and a few of the 20 maybe a couple 21s players that Cameron Carter Vickers was there he would have been there but yeah just remember getting bopped in the run though I'll never forget I remember what boots I had on everything bopped bro

Dom Okus (16:06)
Ha ha!

Jamil Roberts (16:18)
It sounds traumatic, mate. It doesn't sound like a good memory.

Dom Okus (16:19)
Hahaha

Kazaiah Sterling (16:22)
Bro, I swear on everything it was, I'm telling you. I was like, yo, that's just the rondo The training's just started and my legs are heavy now, I'm blowing. I'm like, yo.

Jamil Roberts (16:41)
I don't know why I'm laughing yet because you're saying this about Tottenham. I remember the first time I trained with Plymouth first team and it was the same thing on a bobbly pitch down in Plymouth and I'm chasing in the Rondos like...

Kazaiah Sterling (16:52)
Couldn't even blame the pitch. Couldn't even blame the pitch, bro. No excuses, bro. No excuses. Rondo was just your ability to maneuver the ball, pitch, your touch. And my thing was more like a speed, speed aggression instead of shooting. But none of that matters in Rondo. after that was like, damn, fuck it. That can't be a thing. Can't be a thing.

Dom Okus (16:57)
You

Jamil Roberts (17:13)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mate, do know what's funny? The amount of players that get written off if they're shit in the Rondo, first time they train. Let's get written off.

Kazaiah Sterling (17:26)
Yeah, even now, like, even now I think that they came in the run, I'm like, yeah, like, cause I feel like a lot of the good players are good in run though, like, if you're good in run though, it's like more often than not, like, I know players that normally, normally gonna be good, like.

Jamil Roberts (17:35)
Dead.

Yeah, have you ever heard the one story, I can't remember who said it at Liverpool, but they were saying about Andy Robertson. They were saying like the worst Rondo player of all time they've ever seen. But you put him out there on a Saturday and he's a joke.

Kazaiah Sterling (17:57)
I could kind of see that though, I could kind of see that. Especially at the levels that are extremely high as well. It's not just a normal run though, like guys are like, what you'd think is a stitch ain't a stitch. Yeah, deal with it. I wrapped it in deal with it.

Jamil Roberts (18:09)
Yeah, yeah, cool.

Dom Okus (18:11)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So just talking about the first time trying to train him with the first team and you mentioned it's an international break. So would you kind of just fill in in with four players who had kind of gone away?

Kazaiah Sterling (18:23)
Yeah, basically, yeah. Yeah. because I was doing well in the academy at the time, I started at my scholarship really good, and just training, just really on it. I was just loving it. Training every day, was just like, perfect. Don't have to worry about school. We done like the education thing on a Monday and a Thursday for like half the day, like every day to train, I was loving it. That's all I have to worry about.

Dom Okus (18:49)
Yeah, yeah, And just to explain again to our viewers who might not be aware, when you say scholarship, because we've got an American folks that might be thinking like university scholarship. When you say scholarship, you're basically talking about like an apprenticeship, where you're a full time player for two years, you're being paid to play, and you're essentially living the life of a professional footballer without maybe the millions of pounds yet until you sign a professional deal and then become a first team player.

Kazaiah Sterling (18:57)
Yeah.

apprenticeship. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jamil Roberts (19:12)
you

Kazaiah Sterling (19:14)
No, no, literally that's like you finish school at 16 and then.

If you're not doing lots of people, go into either sixth form college and then go into uni at 18 or you can do an apprenticeship. that's, like you said, the equivalent of an apprenticeship. So started that full time. And we've taught them as well. I'm guessing they're still inside with other academies, but the expectation is you're basically a pro. We got treated like pros. First day, bam. I remember I left my jump in the gym fine, straight away, bam. Then I went on board, done.

And the thing is, sometimes that was the first time, but you don't get like a warning that, you don't know, you just see an envelope come to your digs. So yeah, we moved into digs as well. All of us, we left home and then got moved into that host families. I guess I feel like quite a few clubs across England do that. But for me it's weird, because at one point my digs was further than where my house was.

But like they just wanted to get us used to being away from home. Yeah. A few guys, yeah, a few guys were deaf as well.

Jamil Roberts (20:21)
really? That's interesting that.

Dom Okus (20:24)
So with Diggs

Kazaiah Sterling (20:29)
Yeah, mandatory. There was literally guys whose digs were further than their houses. But I do kind of get what they're trying to get at though. Just being away from home. I guess they can have a bit more control over you as well.

Jamil Roberts (20:31)
Wow.

Dom Okus (20:36)
That's interesting. I don't think I've heard that.

Jamil Roberts (20:37)
Yeah.

Kazaiah Sterling (20:45)
because they tell the host families they're only allowed this sort of food, they have to be home this time, stuff like that. So I guess it's easier to manage. But we got picked up with minibuses in the morning. So we had to set times and it's come, it's sure, it's sure late. Minibus gone.

Jamil Roberts (21:05)
Let me tell you now, it was not like that at Plymouth. I lived about a mile away from Home Park, from the stadium. And on the days where my lift wasn't driving, I was walking. Rain or shine. There was no minibus coming to pick me up. Yeah, but they were like public buses. I'm not being funny. Like I thought...

Dom Okus (21:19)
Yeah

Kazaiah Sterling (21:23)
Were there even buses down them sides?

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (21:33)
Footballer, I'm not getting a bus.

Kazaiah Sterling (21:36)
But you know what's mad? You know what's crazy? Hell of us man, like when we went driving, we link up and get on the train.

Dom Okus (21:36)
hahahaha

Jamil Roberts (21:43)
Yeah but I feel like that's more common because like that's not a thing where I'm from like that's a thing in London yeah that's normal

Kazaiah Sterling (21:47)
That's what I'm saying, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying, playmaps, I didn't even know that I obviously had buses, but did they even run regular like that?

Jamil Roberts (21:52)
Interesting.

I wouldn't know. didn't get one. They touching on that touching on the youth team before you go down there just quickly for me and I'm sure I think I'm sure you'll say the same thing Kaz but for me it was the best time playing football ever. Like you just like you touched on before you just left school you're playing football you're getting paid to play football at 16. It was the best time of my life and you're literally getting paid.

to be around some of your best mates day in, day out. it is, they always used to say, don't take it for granted. And I always thought, nah, like it'll get better, it'll get better. And like I still look back now and I still speak to the lads in the youth team. Like it was the best time ever.

Kazaiah Sterling (22:31)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Tottenham though, it's weird because it started off like all fun and games, so we went in July. It's like it changed with the weather, I swear to God. All fun and games, and as it got colder, it just got like, yo, this is real. This ain't funny no more. And they was really serious with us. Like I said, they wanted us to like...

Jamil Roberts (23:08)
serious.

Kazaiah Sterling (23:12)
be professional to the team, almost more professional than a first team. Obviously to get them like, have sort of habits in so that they was clamping down on us. It wasn't just like we got free time, mess around. They only does like, either like extra training or like watching clips and stuff, which boys did. But like a lot of the time you're there from like what? We was there from like 8.30 to five and we only trained for like that period. So like, what the hell do you do most of the day? like change room.

Jamil Roberts (23:16)
Mm-hmm.

Brew.

Was you doing jobs like at Tottenham or? Yeah.

Kazaiah Sterling (23:43)
Yeah, we had boots. We had to do players' boots. But that's only first years. like, yeah, players' boots. like, I was on Kane and Lamela Or Kane and Dembele

Jamil Roberts (23:47)
Okay, boots were you on?

Right. So, LeMela's right foot was always clean.

Dom Okus (23:53)
Matt.

Kazaiah Sterling (23:58)
Everyone's boots were clean because if they weren't you was getting caught. You just see in the group chat whose boots are blah blah blah and if it got in the group chat it was long because our head of academy is in the group chat and you know if anything's BAM just just in his office next to it's just long like You don't you don't need him on your back at all for anything. So it's just that It was that they had seeing your name get popped up in chat. It's just like, I'm cooked.

Dom Okus (24:01)
hahahaha

Jamil Roberts (24:27)
Nah.

Dom Okus (24:28)
Did you have a good relationship with your head of academy?

Kazaiah Sterling (24:31)
We did, I did, like, he was like really harsh on me, but like, it was like a tough love sort of thing, which is like, some people like, he's one of them, like, some people are easy, he's like, dickhead, blah, But I loved him. To this day, like, one of the best people I've worked with, I think that's like very smart, just like the stuff he saw, like.

The little mind games he would play with us and stuff. You think you're doing well, then he wouldn't start you. He would maybe favour a player who's like, you know you're better than, but if you're not playing to your top potential, you could still be better than this guy, but if you're not playing to your top potential, he'd be like, you're not playing, this guy's playing. Stuff like that. 100%, yeah.

Jamil Roberts (25:14)
you

I'm sure that teaches you values big time, like going forward, yeah, they put that in you from a young age, that's class.

Kazaiah Sterling (25:26)
He's very similar to my dad. So when I went full time, I'm like, yes, right for my dad. Because my dad was on me as well, kind of strict. So I'm like, yeah, right for my dad, Run straight into him. So it's that.

Dom Okus (25:37)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Jamil Roberts (25:38)
You

Kazaiah Sterling (25:41)
It feels like no break, just like damn. Just got to be mentally on it at all times. I think that helped even now, like, even in my transition period with Tottenham Tottenham, that's why it was just so easy for me, because I feel like I was prepared, I was basically prepared for that. Just being able to go into it, it's not always going to be rosy and stuff. Which I think is quite hard for lot of academy players that are adaptation.

Jamil Roberts (26:00)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, definitely mate.

Big time, big time. So I wanted to touch on the, obviously, know, you're in and around the first team a little bit more and I wanted to touch on, you went on quite a few loans, didn't you, as a young age. So obviously you went to Sunderland, Doncaster, Leighton-Orient and Southend, right? Yeah, yeah, So obviously that's quite a bit for a young player. What did that teach you? And I'm not asking you to go through every single one. I'm just saying, just overall going out,

Kazaiah Sterling (26:21)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (26:39)
playing games in the Football League compared to playing in the 23s or just being with the first team in training, like how different was that?

Kazaiah Sterling (26:43)
Just, yeah, just like, something as little as like, the game means more, you know. You can win a 23s game, it could be a game versus Tom and 23s or also 23s, I'm thinking, yeah, massive game. But like, it's nothing compared to just a normal league fixture, just like, just going on, because that's people's act. People got stuff on the line, they want bonuses, mortgages, stuff like that, like it matters, everything matters, like.

Jamil Roberts (26:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kazaiah Sterling (27:11)
So just being in an environment that is different. Growing up in London as well, feel like London culture is extremely different to other parts of the country. adapting to that was a really big, damn, didn't realize that that sort of shit goes on in change rooms.

Jamil Roberts (27:27)
Definitely, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kazaiah Sterling (27:37)
Stuff like, could just like, just very un-PG stuff, like some crazy shit. like, I'm talking, people doing a lot, when people are naked, so just like loads of shit, like some, I feel like it's the further up north from London you go, the crazier the shit happens, so like.

Dom Okus (27:37)
That what? That what? Nah, nah, give me some details. That what?

Jamil Roberts (27:49)
Hahaha

It doesn't get better when you go more south, pal, trust me.

Kazaiah Sterling (28:01)
that I'm just like yo and everyone just, I'm just like true but I'm like what, like just normal, everyone just, everyone just like laughing that nothing's going on. I'm just like yo, just.

Dom Okus (28:13)
Well, let's actually get into it. So what was the craziest thing that you saw in that term?

Jamil Roberts (28:13)
that's funny.

Kazaiah Sterling (28:22)
Probably just like, trying to think. Just people like being like naked in changing room and like touching each other and shit. Just stuff like that. And that being funny, just, and that being funny. To me that ain't, that's never, to me that's just never gonna be funny, like. Especially that scene it live, that's never gonna be funny, but that's some people that are in it, so.

Jamil Roberts (28:40)
you

my God. Yeah. I will say because I'll be honest, the first team change with Plymouth was very similar, but I also think that me and you Kaz, the year that we came through the youth team and the apprenticeship, I really do believe that our age group was like the last age group where the old school mentality was applied. I feel like the, the, the youth teams nowadays, it's not the same. They're, they're a lot more like

Kazaiah Sterling (29:00)
Mm-hmm.

I think so as well, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jamil Roberts (29:13)
protected from that sort of environment. So I really do, because I mean, you can speak for some of the younger lads that you've known coming up, but especially at Plymouth, it's just nowhere near the same. And like, you can't say certain things anymore. You have to treat everyone sort of on a level playing field. Whereas, you know, like we really were that last sort of generation of like, shut the f**k up, you're 16. Do this. Yeah.

Kazaiah Sterling (29:15)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

yeah, straight like that, 16 year old could even be better than this guy he's talking to, but like, I guess there's that sort of respect in like, even like at Tottenham, it's like if a player's good, he's good, but like, I feel like in like the lower league changing room, there's really like a sort of hierarchy, like, like you can literally get bullied, like literally bullied in the changing room. And that's fine, you know, it's part of, I guess it is part of growth, it is character building. But like, like you said, there's like more protection nowadays, I guess.

Jamil Roberts (29:45)
Mm-hmm.

Dom Okus (30:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just to bring it back quickly to the loans. So you mentioned obviously all the clubs you went on loan to. Did you make your Tottenham debut before you went on loan? Because I feel like, so did that have a certain level of expectation on you being this kid that's played for Spurs in whether it's been the Champions League or the Premier League or one of the Cups? And now you're obviously going to a team in the lower league. there a certain level of expectation that you're going to come in and maybe change things as this young, wonder kid from Spurs?

Kazaiah Sterling (30:20)
Yeah.

bit in terms of just like maybe like articles and stuff but like me I never like grown up I just never like looked into that like external like hype sort of thing so like for me it was the only pressure there was was just like on myself or like maybe a manager put on me but like it wasn't just like a you know like you said that I won the kid from Toronto coming on loan loads of pressure I never really saw it as that I just like

And I guess that another thing going back to my academy manager, he was very like keeping us grounded. like, place was go to England. As soon as you got back, was like, anyone who came back from international duty, like youth levels on them extra hard, like, you know, just tell them, you're not fucking in, you're not in England no more, like fix up back to work sort of thing.

Jamil Roberts (31:27)
back to earth.

Kazaiah Sterling (31:30)
They'd make jokes like, England, you lot are going on a holiday camp. They were that, they were that, they were really like, I swear down, were really like played down like getting cooled up for England to the point where it's like, made like almost a little bit embarrassing getting cooled up like.

Jamil Roberts (31:34)
Hahaha

Dom Okus (31:35)
Hahaha

Jamil Roberts (31:47)
Swear.

Kazaiah Sterling (31:48)
I wouldn't want to say embarrassing, but it's just like, I'm going in the fuck when I come back. I just know that they're going to think, he's big time, blah, stuff like that. Which is like, I guess it can go two ways, but for me, I like the kind of mindset that it like installed into me, just like keeping, just being humble and down to earth about, about, about stuff.

Dom Okus (32:13)
Yeah, that's actually a really good segue. So you talk about kind of representing your country at schoolboy level. So what was it like getting called up for the first time? And also like what sort of players that maybe we now see for England's first team or across the Premier League were part of your age group?

Kazaiah Sterling (32:18)
Mm-hmm.

So my first call up was like, my first call up was like just like a random tournament in Portugal. I ended up scoring my debut. So like, that was great. I'm trying to think he was, I don't think all the main people that was calling up at the time, not all of them got called up at the time, but like, I'm trying to think he was in, he was there at the same time as me. Reece Oxford.

Marcus Edwards, that I then saw players, Chris Willock were in that team and were cool at the time. And then after that I done well. And that was the time when I was playing up in the youth cup. So I was under 16, but I was playing under 18 youth cup. And like I was doing well and I scored in like the semi-final and that was on TV as well. So was like the rest of the games went on TV, but the semi-final was ended up scoring in that, which was like.

Which for me, even looking back in terms of that context, it's one of my favourite goals of my career, I'd say. Just how everything happened. And then went to it.

Jamil Roberts (33:34)
You got a better experience in the youth cup than me, mate. I got bounced out two years in a row at home to Portsmouth, 3-0 and 4-0.

Dom Okus (33:41)
how lovely.

Kazaiah Sterling (33:42)
yeah, cause you get a team that's fairly local to you, Yeah, so like, stadium, yeah.

Jamil Roberts (33:46)
Mm-hmm, and then we got bopped in the stadium in front of the first team in front of the fans in front of everyone Two years in a row didn't score a goal. I give away a pen my second year We got bopped mate, know, you know Sorry to interrupt you there Kaz, but you know, the little the little lad that plays for Ipswich now Connor Chaplin So he was at Portsmouth youth and our first year

Dom Okus (33:57)
FF-

Kazaiah Sterling (34:10)
Yeah

Jamil Roberts (34:14)
He didn't play against us in the league because he was, I don't know, he was injured or whatever and then we played him in the youth cup. And they won 4-0 and he's got three goals and an assist and I've never seen anything like it. At that level, like the Cat 2, Cat 3 league, I've never seen anything like it. He just embarrassed us. He beat us single-handedly, absolutely destroyed us. Next week, he's on the bench for first team, comes on, scores two goals.

Kazaiah Sterling (34:27)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah

Jamil Roberts (34:41)
And then he's in the first team for the rest of season and now he's gone on and like he's playing in the Prem for Ipswich. maybe beating us was the catalyst for him going on and doing what he did.

Kazaiah Sterling (34:51)
Maybe football is literally like that. It could be one game where the academy manager, like Youth Cup 4, a lot of us was like the biggest time that Pochettino might actually be watching us. He's come to a few games, this was at the stadium. those are almost like showcase games for us to get into the first team. So yeah, speaking back to that England stuff at the time. So this is actually a hilarious story.

So we go to England, bear in mind I'm still in school, like GCSEs are coming up. So we got mock exams. So I'm missing, I'm going to be missing school for this trip. it's quali, no, Euro qualifiers, that's what it Euro qualifiers. I'm going to be missing school. So they sent me away with the mock paper. So I've got it early. So I'm like, got the paper early. Yo, going to buss the mandem. So I send.

Dom Okus (35:46)
Ha!

Jamil Roberts (35:48)
I'm like

Kazaiah Sterling (35:48)
I'm like, I send pictures back of the mock exam. It's a maths I'll never forget, a maths exam to my group. There's a massive group chat in school, like massive group chat. So I've sent it back. I'm thinking, yeah, my neighborhood hero got the mandem. Next day or so, one of the guys one of the guys from England, not even the manager, one of the guy that does education stuff, calls me in, blah, blah.

Dom Okus (36:02)
You

Kazaiah Sterling (36:14)
Why is the school rung us saying, you sent the exam back, blah, blah. I'm thinking, I've only just got into this england I'm thinking I am cooked I'm cooked. We had a meeting, got sent. I normally remember everything, but that meeting, I can barely remember that meeting. I can barely, I just remember him saying, yeah, you're gonna have to, the coach was saying, you're gonna have to go home. Yeah, you're gonna have to go back to school.

Dom Okus (36:26)
You

No way.

Kazaiah Sterling (36:44)
So I got sent back from England. And I had go back to school. So I'm like, I can't believe I've been betrayed at this. I was trying to... Quick! quick.

Dom Okus (36:47)
No way.

Jamil Roberts (36:47)
Cool.

that's mental.

Dom Okus (36:56)
neighborhood hero turned villain. Mad.

Jamil Roberts (37:01)
In all honesty, what are the school gaining out of that? Like, they can just change the paper. Why are they bringing a kid back who's playing for England?

Kazaiah Sterling (37:05)
But you know, the school didn't even want to send me away. As it is, the school didn't even want to send me away. They want to like, That's how it was. wasn't like, my god. Like, you see how in America, like, if you play for like your national team, you're like almost cherished. I see like loads of kids and stuff, and they like got anything international that they bigged up, hyped up. It's like teachers, some teachers are genuinely hating that.

He gave me a hard time just because I was playing football there for hard. He you can do what you want, blah, blah. And it was nothing to do with football, that, But yeah, I got sent back to school. I didn't talk to anyone in the group chat at all. I'm talking to some of my closest friends even to this day. I didn't speak to them for like a hot minute just because I was like... Luckily, I still had... I still doing well at Tottenham and stuff.

Jamil Roberts (37:52)
That's betrayal, that.

Kazaiah Sterling (38:00)
then I to go in and speak to my academy manager about it. Long, that's probably the scariest I've ever, I'm just like, yeah, I'm cucked. My dad was quite understanding. I didn't think I'd get released, but like, I thought, yeah, I'm cucked. I was thinking, when my parents find out I'm cucked, my dad's quite, that's probably one of the calmer things he was calm about. He's kicked off about worship.

Jamil Roberts (38:09)
You just thought you were gone.

Kazaiah Sterling (38:26)
I mean, I weigh that shit, so I was like, cool. But yeah, having to speak to my academy manager, was just like, I genuinely couldn't think of anything worse. No one had thought to, and then, then had to speak to him about it, it was just like,

Dom Okus (38:46)
So sorry, just.

Jamil Roberts (38:46)
It's funny you talk about... Yeah, Dom, go, go, go, go. No, I was just literally saying, like, it makes sense now when you said earlier about they're very similar people, your academy manager and your dad. And it was like the two people that you actually gave a shit about what they thought, it was them two people. You actually didn't care what the teachers thought. You thought, I'm not going to talk to my friends. Yeah, it was those two and that was it.

Dom Okus (38:49)
No, not jump going.

Kazaiah Sterling (38:59)
Mm-hmm.

You

Couldn't give a toss, yeah. That's what I'm mad at. You know, like there's like, I guess playground stays, who are that rubbish, but like none of that matters. Cause at the end of the day, I go home to my dad and John, he's like, that's like my, that's about my workplace. like, you know, those two opinions were generally the only ones that like, I was really like, damn.

Jamil Roberts (39:13)
You

Kazaiah Sterling (39:36)
So yeah, was in the doghouse with him for a bit, like, yeah, going into the new, going into the squad ship just worked hard.

Dom Okus (39:37)
I feel it.

Yeah,

Yeah, so just to take it back to, I know we keep kind of zigzagging all over the place, but to take it back to the loans, like how did they end up going for you overall? Cause I think through my experience, like my older brother who was at West Ham for 10 years, then ended up playing for Dagenham and Redbridge for a bit, then ended up playing some non league stuff. At West Ham's academy, obviously they're taught to kind of play out from the back, possession, football, you know, really build up. And then you go into some of the lower league stuff and it's like running the channel.

Kazaiah Sterling (39:49)
Asked

Dom Okus (40:13)
play up against a six foot five ugly centre back and play with your back to goal. It's a very different style of football. So like, how did you adjust to that? First of all, and then second of all, how did the loans go in general? Did you find it hard to adjust?

Kazaiah Sterling (40:15)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So it's like, I guess, cause I've always been like a smaller striker. I kind of got a glimpse of like the playing. I was quite physical. could like, I could jump really high. I was quick. like for a lot of managers that's like, yeah, we're gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna run the channel sort of thing. And I didn't really enjoy doing that, but like, you know, like.

fool was about adapting, would do it, if it meant I was gonna play, would 100 % do it sort of thing. So the Southern one was weird, obviously I've got there expecting I'm gonna be getting some decent minutes at least. Not without earning it obviously, but I'm thinking, they've just sold the striker, I've just come in, there's no reason why I shouldn't really be playing. And then I only really found this...

found this out when I watched the Sunderland Till I Die documentary. They signed Will Grigg like, I literally left that app. I I I I probably got signed at like nine o'clock on Deadline Day. And then they signed Will Grigg at like, 12 o'clock on the dot. And they like break the League One record fee for him as well. I didn't really know that at the time, but when I watched it back, it was like a crazy like.

It was a crazy deal. Them even doing the deal was a bit insane. They was like, no, we can't do that. We can't afford it. they broke the record for him. And yeah, he had to play. There's no two ways about it. He had to play.

Jamil Roberts (41:54)
Wow. I've never, do you know what? don't even know. I don't think we've ever even, I think I've made fun of you for the documentary, but we've never actually talked, cause you're not in it are you? You're not really in it.

Kazaiah Sterling (41:55)
So that one was a bit hard, yeah.

Yeah, I barely featured in it, but yeah, nah. So like, yeah, that happened. So like, I was like, damn. So in my experience, it was just like, you know, just work hard in training. If you show that in training, you can do it, you can be the best player in training, you'll play sort of thing. So I was like, you know what?

that's fine, I'm not playing, but I'm gonna make sure I'm on it training every day, turn up early every day, just all them little things that, but just, yeah, just never really, never really got a chance, which is unfortunate, but that is football, you know? And I guess at the time there was a lot of pressure for Sunderland to go up as well. So like, looking back on it, I do kind of understand to a certain extent why I didn't get the chances that I thought I should have, but like, you know.

And both strikers weren't even firing at time as well, so I'm like, surely I'm gonna get some game time, but didn't really get much game time. I got a few appearances, all of them off the bench, scored in one of them. But yeah, it was just really hard to get in the team like that. Yeah, Akritten Stanley away, cold as hell, my God, freezing.

Jamil Roberts (43:11)
Was that your first pro goal? Yeah.

Yeah, took me for it, took me for it.

Kazaiah Sterling (43:24)
So someone's got played that I'm on the bench this game thinking I'm there for they're missing sitters upon sit like crazy shit. I'm like, my God, like I'm definitely I must be coming on because I'm definitely scoring in this game. We scored two goals early. So I come on now. Lewis Morgan, he's at he's in America now. Red Bulls. Yeah, so he's he's been slipped in down the side.

Jamil Roberts (43:48)
Mm-hmm.

Kazaiah Sterling (43:53)
and he's like playing me a ball across. It's kind of like, it's not a sweaty, but it's kind of a sweaty, but it's one of them where like the keeper's kind of like, it's very missable, you know? But if you do miss it, everyone's saying, he's shit, how the fuck you not score that? It wasn't fizz, so it was like kind of tricking so that the keeper's like kind of following the ball. So like, he's not even like out. So I'm just like, and it's bubbly as hell. I'm just like, I'm watching that ball like a hawk. I'm just like.

Jamil Roberts (43:59)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Was it fi- Was it fizzed?

Yeah.

Kazaiah Sterling (44:21)
load hard into the corner like you practice every day bam goes in and then yeah more relief when it went in than anything i can't lie

Jamil Roberts (44:23)
Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I bet. How many times you watched it back?

Kazaiah Sterling (44:35)
of recent crime over, definitely when I watched the battle. I watched it a few times. Celebration that kind of half jumped into the crowd as well. was by the way end as well. Then some of the are crazy. So it was that. Long play they don't play.

Jamil Roberts (44:47)
cult hero, don't fall in love with a lone player. That was you on it.

Dom Okus (44:50)
But I think that's a good segue into kind of what happens next, right? So I think a lot of the fans will know you for kind of playing here in the US. So obviously things end up, you know, kind of ending at Tottenham. So talk us a little bit through about what happened there and then kind of what happens next in your footballing journey.

Kazaiah Sterling (45:05)
Mm-hmm.

So my last few years, I've done a bit weird. So like, it goes back to my loan, the loan after the Sunday one, going to that season, going on at Don Carstar. I really, I really like, I feel like that was a system that I was really gonna do well in. Just off of like training, just like free pre-season games and stuff. So my first game, I think I'll come on to get an assist.

My next game is like a EFL Cup game against Lincoln or something. So I score in that one. I score and assist in that one. So I'm thinking, yeah, like I've scored, assisted twice, like surely get my start, get my start in the league, get injured before half, so I have to come up before half time. And it ended up being my last game of the season.

So I was out for like the rest of year. It like a weird injury. it was just a dead leg, I thought, just a dead leg. Then like, like calcified and turned into bone. So that was like a blood clot that turned into bone. So it was just like a weird random injury. And then I ended up being out for the rest of the year. I signed for Lane Oren in that January transfer window, even though like I was at rehab in, was like a...

I knew that the manager that was there at the time, they thought I was maybe gonna come back in that sort of time. So they was like, yeah, we'll sign him. And then when he's ready to play, can play. COVID didn't happen. So the season was just done. I wouldn't have been ready to play anyway. COVID happened. So I had to do rehab during the COVID period, which was actually quite good, really, enough.

that COVID, yeah, England was like hot. It got hot in like April, which was like rare. So like I would do my rehab in the park. Some of my boys were even doing it with me. So like we was like doing rehab that, so that was kind of like a decent period, just getting fit and stuff. And then going into that next season, I went on to Southend, which just wasn't like a great, loan in general. Just, know, the team wasn't doing well.

was like coming in, we had lost like maybe 300 pounds. There's like embargo stuff, like there was a slow going on, like, and the foot wasn't going great as well. So we just getting that smashed like most, gains. So that was like quite hard to deal with. I saw then like, yeah, it was like a, there wasn't going to be a path into the first team for me. So it was just like, I just knew by...

Dom Okus (47:55)
you

Kazaiah Sterling (47:59)
But January, I wouldn't be at Tottenham no more. So was looking for teams abroad, stuff like that. COVID made it really hard, just in terms of just moving around. I feel like being out of country around them that time was just like, teams would say, we don't have money. We don't have this, don't this. Even getting trials was hard because we can't have you in because you've got to do this COVID test. It was just crazy, generally, just even getting to training places.

Dom Okus (48:29)
So what did that do to you? going to be honest, right? Cause like you're a kid that's come through a top academy in the country. Obviously you've made your first team debut. You've played a bunch of games in the league and now you find yourself in a position where you're even struggling to get a trial, like even a look in somewhere, right? Like if I don't even get a session, like you don't even, you don't have to pay me. I'm just going to drive there or get the train there and I'm just going to train. So like, what did that do to you? Like from like an ego perspective, like you seem like a quite humble.

Kazaiah Sterling (48:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

Dom Okus (48:58)
humble guy, but what that do to like your ego, your confidence and then, you know, like just speak about speak about that time.

Kazaiah Sterling (49:04)
Ego-wise, it was fine for me because I feel like, like I said, I've never really, like, in my own head, I've never really hyped myself up, like, too big, you know? But it was just like, I was just like, damn. Obviously, my last two loans, like, I just weren't enjoying the football, so I was just like, it got to a point where I was just like, damn, I'm not even that enjoying football right now. This is like crazy. So I was just like doing fitness stuff, blah, blah, blah. Then I was like...

It just came into my head that at the time, I do really want to play in America. I've always wanted to play in America. In my mind, that was just the perfect time to go. I just needed a reset, fresh start. Go somewhere where my friends aren't there, no one's there. Just me and football. I can enjoy it and just lock in. So that was my full process in going. It was hard though.

Definitely it was hard, like, I feel like I'm quite a, if I can't control it, I'm not gonna stress about it, person. I don't know how I've drilled that into my head, but like, if I can't control it, then I'm just like, you know, it's where it is sort of thing.

Jamil Roberts (50:09)
love that.

Yeah.