Thomas Tuchel’s England - World Cup 2026, A New Era, Can We End 60 Years Of Hurt?

This week it’s just Dom & Jam in the studio! We delve into the home nation, and discuss the England National team under new leadership. We chat about the future of England football with Thomas Tuchel at the helm as they approach the 2026 World Cup. We break down Tuchel’s first squad selection, and who we believe should be in the starting 11. The conversation highlights the excitement surrounding the current squad, the tactical approaches of Tuchel, and the expectations for the World Cup 2026. With a mix of optimism and realism, we share our predictions for England's performance and reflect on what England Football really means to us die hard England fans.

00:00 England Football - It's A Drug!

03:03 Should England Have An English Manager?

07:27 Tuchel's First England Squad Selection

13:00 Albania Reviews

15:48 Is Harry Kane Going To Start For England?

17:57 Can Tuchel Give England A Style Of Play?

20:15 What Is England's Best Starting XI?

27:21 Could Eze Be England's Answer At Left Wing?

31:37 The Rise & Fall of Jack Grealish

34:33 Will Dele Alli Make It Back To The Top?

35:33 Is Premier League Bias Real?

37:30 Predictions for World Cup 2026

Subscribe - https://www.youtube.com/@TheBackStickPod

For more of The Back Stick Podcast! - linktr.ee/thebackstickpod

@TheBackStickPod - On All Socials

Transcript

Dom Okus (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome to the Backstik Podcast. I'm your boy Dom Ocas and I'm here with my boy Jamil Roberts. Jamil, how you doing bro?

Jamil Roberts (00:10)
I'm good man, I'm good. As you can see in the back here, new settings. I'm in Bristol at the moment. Staying with my boys up in Bristol. It's nice to be back in the city and yeah, I mean, I'm looking out the window right now, it's grey skies, but you know, what's new. But how about yourself mate, you good?

Dom Okus (00:15)
Hahaha

Yeah good bro, good good. It's so so great hearing Austin went for a walk this morning, feeling good, little slow Sunday. I'm excited man because it's just us two today and we get to switch up the pace a little bit. But before we get into the episode though, there's a bunch of people who saying they're really liking the content, they're really enjoying the YouTube videos, they're really enjoying the rills and the TikToks but they haven't subscribed.

And I don't understand why they're looking at me in my face right now. I'm talking to you. Why haven't you subscribed? Make sure you like comment all the podcasts, distributors. That's what Apple podcast Spotify. Just please subscribe. It means a lot to us. But today we're here to talk about the home nation. We're to talk about England. And we to talk about the future of England. Cause what we're about 14, 15, 16 months away from the world cup is here in the US where I am.

super excited for it. But I can always get excited though man. It's almost like I forget about England and I'm like I don't really care and as we itch closer to the tournaments I start getting excited, I buying shirts.

Jamil Roberts (01:36)
Mate.

It's a drug and it reels you back in. England, football is a drug and it's an unhealthy drug, let's be honest, for our lifetime.

Dom Okus (01:45)
It's so bad. It's so

bad, man, because I love it. Like, I hate it, then I love it, right? We do this thing where we, like, especially in the UK, right? Because it's in the summer, it's warm, we all go to beer gardens, slims, it's joy, last minute winners, we're all excited. And they always let us down. But I'm hoping this time around it's different. The squad that we have is embarrassingly good.

Jamil Roberts (01:53)
Mm-hmm.

Dom Okus (02:14)
There is no way we can't win something in the next one to five years. Surely, right?

Jamil Roberts (02:21)
Yeah, but how many, like, thing that always, the thing that always comes down to is how many times have people in their mid to late 20s, like you and I, not just this generation, but the generation before and a generation before that, how many times have they been saying this? Since 1966, I'm not just talking about, you know, the 2006 team with the Rooneys, the Skolls, the...

Dom Okus (02:34)
Yeah.

Yep.

you

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (02:50)
the Gerard Lampard, you know, super team that we had then and we couldn't even win it. I'm talking like in the 90s of Gaza and Shearer and the 80s before that, you know what mean? It's like England seemed that we just can't get it right. And you know, obviously we're going into a bit of a new era now with Thomas Tuchel. So what's your thoughts?

Dom Okus (03:03)
Yeah, yeah.

Do know what it is? I always said, and this is an unpopular opinion, but for England to be successful, we had to get away from forcing ourselves to have an English manager. It's very patriotic and I get it, but unfortunately England doesn't produce enough homegrown talented coaches, right? Like Eddie Howe is probably the best British coach or English coach, should say specifically right now. And he's not that great. Like if you ask me,

He's not going to be the person that takes Newcastle to super success. Yes, they've just won the Carabao Cup, which is great, but he's not going to win the Premier League and he's not going to win the Champions League. And if Newcastle really want to kick on, they're going to go and get a foreign manager. I think the England team is the same. It's unfortunate. I wish that we could produce the talent at home, but we can't. And so I think it's brave that we've gone out and got a foreign coach who I think is going to do the job. What do you think?

Jamil Roberts (03:59)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I agree with you. Before I go into it, I just want to extend off what you said about Eddie Howe there, because I loved it. Obviously, they've just won the FA Cup, or the League Cup, sorry. I know our boy Jordan Skellans absolutely over the moon with that one. I'm sure he shut down Knoxville on his own that night. But it was one thing he said after the final, and he said, they said...

Dom Okus (04:17)
Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Hahaha! For sure! Hahaha!

Jamil Roberts (04:36)
Well, Mikel Arteta is apparently a world-class manager and he's got the same amount of league cups as me, so I guess I'm world-class now, right? I thought he was brilliant.

Dom Okus (04:42)
Yeah, I love

that. No, I love that. And I think Adi Ha a good coach. There's no disrespect to him, I just don't think he's of the level of the elite, elite coaches and what it takes to like really push a team into like the Premier League and that would be the best league in the world. The Champions League and that would be the best competition in Europe. And I just don't think he has the pedigree to go there. So.

Jamil Roberts (05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

I think, mean, you're right. And if you look at the top teams in the world, that there aren't English coaches, you know, front in those operations, right? So, you're right in that sense. I think what we're experiencing now as a nation, when it comes to coaches, when it comes to managers and everything, is the education is changing, right? Like you could, there's a, I think just like there was a big push.

Dom Okus (05:29)
you

Jamil Roberts (05:33)
in like the 2010s to change up the education of the players. There seems to be a big shift now England's coming away from what we typically have been known for in the past, right? And we're adopting this more continental, you know, sexy style of football, which inevitably is coming in from the younger coaches, right? And obviously now...

We've got a foreign coach and let's see because I've always been a massive fan of all of Tuco's teams in the past. You know, obviously when he had the Chelsea team, we saw it firsthand in the Premier League and he went and won it. They won the Champions League as well. know, he's best of the best. I'll be honest, I had my patriotic hat on when we were doing the hiring process and I did think that it should have been an English manager. And it was one of those things that...

I didn't believe in it until I saw it and then I saw it and it felt right.

Dom Okus (06:32)
Yeah, think he was probably one of the best coaches available. And I think I agree with you, right? It would be nice if we had an English manager who could come out and take us where we need to go. But I think Eddie Howe's still on the journey. And I think maybe in 10 years, Eddie Howe could be have the chops to be that guy that could win something for us, but he just doesn't right now. So I think Tuk is a good appointment. I think he's brave. And I think you can see...

Jamil Roberts (06:49)
Yeah.

Dom Okus (07:01)
There's just like a certain confidence around him that I haven't seen from an England manager in a very long time. The way he speaks, he doesn't care. He's bantering the media, he's bantering the players. He's like, this is my job, these are my ideas. I'm gonna make some brave decisions when it comes to the squad as well, which I liked. It made some very brave calls. And so I'm like, I can get behind this. I can get behind this.

Jamil Roberts (07:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Mm-hmm

Yeah,

yeah, mate. And to be fair, it's a good little segue for us because obviously the first squad's been chosen. There was a few names in there that caused a bit of a stir. So the first one, Jordan Henderson getting recalled. So that was obviously that made waves. And I think rightly so because I think for his first squad to recall someone that, let's be honest,

was phased out, let's put it, from what we just did, the Euros. So the previous World Cup, he'd been phased out, know, other midfielders like your Bellinghams and Declan Rice sort of took over the two eight positions in that team. And Henderson just didn't really find himself, you know, obviously he went to Saudi and that kind of, it seemed like his England career was done, but.

Dom Okus (08:02)
Mm-hmm.

Jamil Roberts (08:21)
I see what Tuchel's like, when he was asked about it, he said, someone of that experience to be in, especially early doors in his reign, I get it. In a weird way, Jordan Henderson's not gonna win us the World Cup, but in a squad that is full of so many young lads that have maybe played one, two, three international games.

To have someone that's been there and done it and worn the shirt so many times, it's comfortable around the environment, obviously a well-liked character, I think is a really, really smart decision.

Dom Okus (08:56)
Yeah, I agree. And I actually think Jordan Henderson won't actually end up being in the World Cup squad next year anyway. But I think he wants to use him as like a culture carrier, if you will, to like exactly what you're saying, right? He's got some of the young boys in inexperienced players like a Cole Palmer, like a Curtis Jones, like a Morgan Rodgers. And Henderson being the kind of leadership architect that he is will give them a wealth of knowledge, right? And so it's like he's using those players to kind of act

Jamil Roberts (09:07)
Mm-hmm

Yeah, yeah.

Dom Okus (09:26)
says that and get him over the line in the next kind of six to 12 months while he's still figuring out exactly who he wants to have in the team. Like I think Henderson will probably be replaced by someone like Adam Morton in 12 months time. But I think Adam Morton's injured right now. And so he's probably using, yeah, so he's using like a hand-dota, this is my first squad, I want to get this, I want to get the team together. I like the way you lead and so he's bringing them into the squad. So yeah, it's interesting. It's definitely interesting.

Jamil Roberts (09:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, he's just coming back.

Yeah, and then another one that has

received a lot of criticism at the early part of the season with City. He's obviously now moved over to Italy as Carl Walker. You know, you can, and this is where I was going with before, like I can see what he's doing. I can see why he's bringing those lads back in because they were so key to, let's be honest, you know, you can, you can say whatever you want about South Gates rain and how we maybe should have won a trophy under him, but they were so integral to changing the culture of England to from a team that

Dom Okus (10:04)
Mm.

Jamil Roberts (10:26)
know, last 16 came around and you we thought we'd be lucky to make the quarterfinal to, you know, semi-final, semi-final, final, you know, it was an integral part of that group that changed the view of England. And obviously the talent in the squad does that and it speaks for itself, but there has to be a cultural piece in that that was instilled that, you know, we're not gonna be England teams of...

the 2000s, the 2010s, you know, they shifted it and, you know, they're the ones that got us to this point where now we're having the conversation of we should be winning.

Dom Okus (11:02)
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I think this is interesting, right, because I feel like there's a bunch of players missing. I'm just looking at the squad now to my left and there's a bunch of players missing, right? So if you look at the defenders we've got, we've got Dan Byrne, Colwell, Gehy, James, Esri Kwanzaa, Lewis Gellie, Livermento, Kwanzaa, Walker. The key names I can think off the top of my head that are missing, John Stones.

Jamil Roberts (11:28)
Mm-hmm.

Dom Okus (11:30)
I think either of Luke Shaw or Ben Chilwell.

And so it will be interesting to see with a fully fit England team, which one of these folks would drop out. Because Dan Byrne being in the squad for the first time, I think is deserved. But when everyone's available, is he going to get picked? Probably not.

Jamil Roberts (11:51)
Yeah,

it's a good point. I will just extend off that with Dan Byrne obviously winning what a week he had. And this won't be common knowledge to a lot of the listeners, but Dan Byrne actually scored the goal, arguably the biggest goal in my club, Yeovil Towns history. He scored at Wembley.

Dom Okus (11:59)
I mean, I'm real. I'm real.

Jamil Roberts (12:15)
Back in, I think it was 2012 or 2013, one of the two, he scored the second one at Wembley when he was on loan to us to take us up to the championship. So it's not the first time that Dan Burn has scored a winner at Wembley, everyone.

Dom Okus (12:27)
Wow.

Hahaha, class. That's class.

Jamil Roberts (12:32)
He is a, that's a Yovo legend right there. And I

was buzzing, I was buzzing when I saw him in the squad. that's a player that's just maximized what he's got, right? You know, there's, like you say, there's probably on paper, arguably talented center-arfs, but he's worked his ass off and he's got where he is. And anyone who gets called up for England is a good player. they're the best of the best.

Dom Okus (12:42)
Yeah.

100 % 100 % 100 % 100

% 100 % So what do we think of the performance the other night against Albania? Okay performance nothing to overly criticise about nothing to overly rant and rave about but just generally what did you think?

Jamil Roberts (13:15)
I it's a job that needed to get done, right? He's not got much time to work with a squad. That's one challenge that Tuco is gonna have to...

face is obviously he's used to having lads on the training ground every single day so he's going to have to utilise the short amount of time that he's got to work with these lads but at end of the day you can only beat what's put in front of you and it was a 2-0 win you know Kane getting back on the score sheet in an England shirt you know a lot of chances created especially in the first half as well Jude getting in and around it as well and then you know the first one Lewis Skelly getting the first goal on his debut as well you know he's obviously had a big

breakout year for Arsenal and you know the call-up was very very much deserved you know and I'm saying it as I'm laughing because you know there was all the controversy about when he did the Hallans celebration and then you know the stay humble stuff blah blah blah this and that but at the end of the day whether you like it or not you've got you've got some balls

to go as a young lad to play for Arsenal first and foremost, scoring, you know, he's getting his name out there and he's in the England squad now and he's backing it up. Scored on his debut for England, scoring goals for Arsenal, he's playing week in week out in, you know, the team that is pushing Liverpool for the title, you know? So I think it was a well-rounded performance. Definitely a lot to build on. But I like where Tuchel's head is at.

I think there was less of like a pragmatic approach that was taken under Southgate's reign. And I think if we can just continue to build off of that and you know, I love some of the quotes of, you know, he wants lads to be braver out wide and taking people on and doing this. I feel like it's, he's giving lads license to...

play with a lot more freedom, which, you know, the England shirt, it weighs heavy on the chest and everything, but, you know, I think he's just trying to take the pressure off him and say, like, you are world-class footballers, go and do your thing.

Dom Okus (15:26)
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Think.

It's interesting, right? Because I almost feel like for some of our players, we're in a little bit of a transition period. In that, like, Karl Walker, is he going to be the starting right back come next summer?

Jamil Roberts (15:40)
Mmm.

Dom Okus (15:50)
Probably not. Harry Kane, is he gonna be the starting striker come next summer?

Jamil Roberts (15:57)
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I'll do, I'll do, mate, yeah.

Dom Okus (15:58)
You beat.

Was he that

great last summer?

Jamil Roberts (16:08)
No, but it's Harry Kane. And there's some players that you can give a little bit of leeway to sometimes. Do I think that he should have played as much last summer as he did? No, because we had, you know, Ollie Watkins and other forwards that were firing when Kane necessarily wasn't. But at the end of the day, it's Harry Kane. I think he's a player that if you get the best out of Harry Kane in an England shirt, then we're going to have more chance of winning.

Dom Okus (16:10)
I know, but we need to win.

Jamil Roberts (16:37)
Whether or not he lacks some sort of mobility that maybe a Watkins gives you, I don't know. But at the end of the day, for me, Harry Kane is one of the only world-class players that we've produced in the last 25 years.

Dom Okus (16:40)
I will see.

No, he's a baller. I'm

not hating on Kane, by the way. I think he's a baller. I just think.

It depends what Tusha wants to do. If he is going to fit into what Tusha wants to do and make the team better, great. But I didn't feel that way last year. felt like was just on the pitch because he's Kane, but he didn't necessarily fit into what Southgate wanted to do. I found it was almost like I was seeing Foden, Kane, Jude, Palmer almost taking up a bunch of the same spaces in the team.

Jamil Roberts (17:05)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dom Okus (17:30)
like, just kind of dropping off from the midfield in between the midfield and the defence. I was like, what are we doing here? Like, it's just that we just threw a bunch of good players on the pitch and we're just like, yeah, you got, you lot figure it out. So if there's a plan in place, great. But if not, I'd rather play the players that are going to execute for the plan, which is what I think some other countries do. They sometimes drop players that are big names in favour of who is going to do the job for the plan. So we'll see. We'll see. We will see.

Jamil Roberts (17:36)
Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah, I mean,

what I guess to kind of extend off of that, right? I mean, it was the it was the interview that sold sold to call for me before we'd even kick the ball. And when you talk there about what we were doing last summer and in the euros and this and that, and his answer when he said, you know, did England have a style of play last year? And he said, No, they looked more

afraid to lose, then they were excited to go and win the whole thing. Now that sold it for me. So I put it back onto you. You know, did England have a style of play last year? Did they have anything that you could go, that's the England team? Because for me, it looked like square pegs and round holes.

Dom Okus (18:43)
Yeah, I mean the first game with it, right, when we played Trent holding me field. That was the most forced thing I've ever seen in my life. What are you doing? Like Trent's a boy though, by the way. Never gonna hate on him. But if he doesn't fit into what you're trying to do, don't try and force him. But to answer your question, have England ever had a style of playing?

Jamil Roberts (19:03)
No, and that's why I'm excited because that's the first thing he said. It's like, you know what? And yes, he has that club manager mentality where, you know, you have time on a training ground to really implement, you know, he talks about patterns of play a lot and things like that. And, you know, time will tell if he's got enough time to really implement those patterns of play and the culture in terms of on the pitch culture to this England team, because at the end of the day,

Dom Okus (19:07)
Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (19:31)
If you can get the culture right and you can get an England style of play, then and the FAA likes it, then if anything, that just rolls onto the next manager to kind of take that and just make your own little tweaks on it. You know, you're not, not every single manager is coming in and trying to rip up the rule book. you know what I mean? So it's difficult, but

Dom Okus (19:47)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (20:02)
I think if you can lay the foundations now, then there'll be a base layer then for the next England manager and the next one and the next one to, like I said, just build off, tweak, but keep that England way as the foundation.

Dom Okus (20:16)
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Right, so I've got a question for you then. If you've got to pick the starting 11 for England, everyone's available, right? So forget injuries. You've got to pick the starting 11 for the first game next summer. Who do you think?

Jamil Roberts (20:32)
Okay, very tough. I will start from the obviously in goal. Right now, I think Nick Pope is England's best goalkeeper.

Dom Okus (20:32)
Tough question, I know.

Yeah.

Okay.

Jamil Roberts (20:46)
But there's a lad, James Trafford, that I believe could be England's number one. I really like him. I think he deserves a move to a top club and that's who I'd like to see. But Nick Pope right now, I Pickford's had his time and whatever. I think if you're picking who's the best right now, I'd say Nick Pope. I don't think Carl Walker goes. immediately the one that springs to mind is Rico Lewis, who I'm a big fan of as well.

Dom Okus (20:49)
Mm-hmm.

really good.

Okay?

Jamil Roberts (21:17)
Fully fit, Stones has to play. I think Maguire still is in with a massive shout. But then we'll see how people like Levi Cole keeps developing over the next 12 months. Obviously he's getting a lot of playing time for Chelsea. I'm a big fan of his. He's left footed as well, which makes a massive difference in the balance. mean, Luke Shaw.

Dom Okus (21:21)
Yep.

Jamil Roberts (21:44)
If you can ever string five games together, Luke Shaw will always be the first choice at left back, but you've got Lewis Skelly there. So if I'm picking it right now and I'm looking ahead 12 months, realistically, I'm going as a back four Rico Lewis, John Stones, Harry Maguire and Lewis Skelly.

I don't think you can look too far from the Rice and Bellingham two pivot there. But one player that's just, I think he's been outstanding this year for Liverpool is Curtis Jones. think he's really making a shout for himself. Other players that have been unbelievable like Morgan Rogers. think lads in the 21s that you've got to look at as well, like Elliot Anderson.

Dom Okus (22:15)
Yeah, double pivot, yeah.

Yeah, really good player.

Hold up.

Jamil Roberts (22:35)
think he's top and I think he'd be brilliant in a box-to-box role for us, whether or not he'd be able to because Jude Bellinan plays. know, Jude's Jude. Palmer has to play, so I think currently, you know, there's three. You know, you'd have Jude, Kane and Palmer as on their best day. They're the world-class players in that squad. So for me, I think the world-class players should be playing in their best position. So that's why I'd have a midfield free of Rice, Bellinan and Palmer.

Dom Okus (22:44)
Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (23:06)
Sack her on the right, that's his, if he's fit, he's playing. I'd always have Kane through the middle, as we were saying before. But then form and injuries, you never know how Ollie Watkins is gonna do, Dom Salanke's another one, he's had a good start at Tottenham. And then on that left side.

It's still a position that's up for grabs. For me, the best in that position, the best in class right now is Anthony Gordon. So I don't think it's changed that much in terms of personnel from what we were saying before the Euros, right? But it's just the way that the manager interprets that. Maybe we go to a three, maybe we try other things, blah, blah, I've always liked England as a three personally.

Dom Okus (23:38)
Myth.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (23:56)
But it's all about getting the best out of what you've got, which has been the main struggle for England managers over the years. So yeah, the said the back four, yeah, the midfield three, Saka, Gordon, Kane is the front three there. About yourself.

Dom Okus (24:04)
like your team.

I like it. I like it. I like it. I'm going to

make some small tweaks, but I like yours generally. Going to have a lot of the same players. In goal for me has to be Pickford. That's the first place I disagree with you. I think Nick Pope's a good keeper and I really like James Thratford and he come through at City and then has gone to Burnley. But Pickford in the England shirt has been fantastic and I wouldn't want to change that. Yeah. So I think I'd keep him there. Right back.

Jamil Roberts (24:31)
yeah, faultless obviously, yeah, yeah.

Dom Okus (24:38)
I'm either going for one of two people. If Carl Walker's still playing at a high level, then he has to play for me. I don't know if he's going to be in 12 months, but if he's still playing at a high level, he has to be there. He's like almost unbeatable. It feels like at times, but I don't know if he's still going to have that in him in 12 months. So if not, then we have to play Trent. There. And I know people say, oh, he can't defend, he gets ripped one on one, blah, blah. The guy's a joke. Get him on the pitch. The guy's a joke.

Jamil Roberts (24:47)
Mm-hmm.

yeah, yeah.

It's ridiculous.

Yeah.

Dom Okus (25:08)
So going

Trent right back. Rico Lewis is good shot though, ball as well. But I'm gonna go Trent. I'm gonna go John Stone, Degree of You. But then I'm gonna go Mark Getty next. I'm gonna go Mark Getty, Getty next to him. I think he...

Jamil Roberts (25:19)
Yeah.

He's one

that I will hold my hands up there and I didn't even consider. And if I'm picking it right now, then I agree with you, Mark Gathey plays next to John Stones.

Dom Okus (25:24)
Yeah, you never think of...

Yeah,

it's really good, strong, fast and he really performed well last year. I was impressed with how he did at the international level. So I'll put him then. Then I'll agree with you. I'll go Lewis Skelly, left back. If Luke Shaw is fit though and available and playing at a good level, I prefer him. I think he's great. And he does and has done great in the England shirt, right? Almost been faultless in the England shirt. So if he's fit and available Luke Shaw and Skelly, so I agree with you there.

Jamil Roberts (25:37)
Yeah.

is brilliant.

He's amazing.

Dom Okus (25:58)
Midfield three, completely agree. It has to be Jude, has to be Rice, has to be Cole Palmer. I did think about if we should put Cole Palmer on the wing and play Foden in the 10, but ultimately Palmer's been better and more consistent than Foden. So he's the one that has to be moved around. Foden has to find somewhere else to play. Sackle has to play right wing. Down the middle now is where I'm like, of... Like Kane is off skip part.

Jamil Roberts (26:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dom Okus (26:27)
All-time goal scorer, think now, right? All-time goal scorer, unbelievable player. But in 12 months time, last summer he looked like he had a fucking caravan on his back. So I'm like, next year, is he going to be doing that same bullshit? So that's why I'm a little bit poor, but for now I'll put him in. And then on the left, I feel like the left wing's up for grabs. Andy Gordon's great, but I feel like there's a bunch of players who could play there.

Jamil Roberts (26:29)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

you

Dom Okus (26:56)
Could you put fold in there? Could you put Rashford there if he sorts out his form? Could you put a bow in there? There's a bunch of players who are kind of in and around the same thing, but if we're talking about being direct and going towards gold, then I think Gordon's probably the man for the job, so I'd agree with you. But the only differences I had to you is what? Right back and keeper, I think. Yeah, basically, yeah.

Jamil Roberts (26:57)
Aw yeah.

Yeah. Do you know?

Yeah. Another

one to throw in that left wing shout. And it's a player that like, he plays in the 10 for his club, but Eze, I think he'd be brilliant to play on the left there.

Dom Okus (27:32)
Yeah, yeah, So good.

Jamil Roberts (27:32)
like Eze is a baller, he deserves to be at a top

six club, no disrespect to Crystal Palace, but you know, he's just a player, he's class. He's like just one of them players that's just so, so good at football. So, you know, not to say they're all not, but like he's just really good at football. And I feel like he's one of those, you know, if Foden was right footed.

Dom Okus (27:38)
No.

Yeah, it's so good.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (27:57)
then I'd say it's a little bit more natural for him to sort of float into them pockets or whatever. But Eze being right-footed, I think that's where he gets the nod because he got that bit more freedom to go both ways. He's an intelligent guy. And for me, like again, without touching on Harry Kane, I think you've got to put players that are gonna get the best out of their teammates, right?

Dom Okus (28:02)
Yeah.

Yep.

and

Jamil Roberts (28:19)
Eze's constantly going to be looking for that slip ball for Harry Kane to go and finish. You know, so you got that the options, like you said, maybe the more direct options of like a Gordon or Rashford. I don't think Rashford will, if I'm being honest, I think he's said it's

Dom Okus (28:24)
Yeah.

No.

you

Jamil Roberts (28:37)
And then you've

got the options, like you said, of a Foden or an Eze or something like that that can be a little bit more jinky in those positions. the one thing that we've got is options, right? And it would be different if we were sat here saying, we've got 12 players here and the drop-off's not great. We have an abundance of talent, which is the manager's disposal. So go and make something happen, please.

Dom Okus (28:47)
Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think the other reason I'd probably go for Gordon is because if I look at the front three, he's probably the only one with real pace. Like Sacka's quick, but he's not like blistering pace. Payne's obviously never been someone who's blistering pace. And I'm like, if we had Eze in there, he's a great player. But again, he's not got that pace to really stretch the team. But I love what you're saying about Eze, him being so good at football. It's like he's a player's player.

Jamil Roberts (29:11)
Hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

yeah.

Dom Okus (29:31)
You know, like

you watch him play football and they're just like, this boy's a joke. Like you just watch him in a five, like a keep ball or something and you're just like, you just look so effortless for him, you know.

Jamil Roberts (29:35)
Yeah.

Yeah, and another thing the

I use the word, this England team of this whole generation has been a lot more likeable, right? And I'm actually gonna quote my boy Milo here, Milo Joseph, that I went to college with and he's just moved to Lex. So all the best to those boys for this season. That's an episode that needs to happen, Milo Joseph on the pod. But Milo actually went, he was at Mutch and Gladbach as a kid and he went on trial with QPR before he come to Marshall. And when we were talking about-

Dom Okus (29:50)
Mmm.

Yes.

For sure.

Mm-hmm.

man.

Jamil Roberts (30:14)
it.

the one player that he said, and this is before Eze got big anywhere at all, right? The one player he said that was just so nice to him, that was like so welcoming. You know how it is when you're a trialist, you the lads don't talk to you, blah, blah, blah, this and that. He said Eze was the nicest fella that he met like in football, like in that time where he was trialing for clubs. He said like he just, he was so nice, welcoming, made him feel like at ease and everything. So, you know, for me, like that's, that's like a little extension off.

Dom Okus (30:20)
Yeah

So

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (30:45)
Like, you know, I've been told firsthand that he's a great geezer. you know.

Dom Okus (30:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can

just see it in him, right? Like he's still super competitive and whatever, but he's enjoying his football. He's got such a confidence that, I feel like some of that, you know, being cold to trailers and stuff comes from a little bit of a place of insecurity, but he knows himself and he knows he's a baller. And he's just like, yeah, it doesn't threaten me if you come in. Like, I know myself, I know I'm great. So it was fun. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (30:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and I mean

that doesn't happen a lot in football, does it? Just I think people in football sometimes they feel like they have to live up to the persona of being a footballer, of being, you know, holding yourself to a certain, you know, self-esteem in society, right? So when you hear stories of like these top level players that are so good at what they do, just being regular, nice people, you know, it is good to see. One player just kind of on that subject of just being

Dom Okus (31:22)
Yeah.

That's all.

Jamil Roberts (31:43)
a great guy but someone whose careers falling by the wayside a little bit and firing on all cylinders for me starts on the left is Jack Grealish.

Dom Okus (31:57)
yes, yes.

Jamil Roberts (31:59)
What's

happened with Jack Grealish, mate? Come on, like, we all know how good he is. We all know how good he can be, but...

I don't know when it changed, when they won the treble. And it's just, we haven't seen the same Jack Grealish that was in that treble winning team that we saw at Villa, that was just like, you know, when you're talking about these players, he was in the same conversation as Phil Foden for England's number 10. Not even just being in the squad, like he had to play. You know, do you remember the...

Was it the Euros before or it was the World Cup where we beat Germany? And the fans basically bullied Southgate into playing him because he was so good. And now he's not even in the conversation where we've just talked about options on the left or even being in the lineup, nowhere near the squad. How has that happened to players,

Dom Okus (32:52)
For

me, think his move to City was great for his trophy cabinet, but not good for him as a player. Because we don't get to see the best version of Jack Grealish in that system. He's not given the ability to just pick up the ball in the half way line, jump across five players and score. Which is what he wants to do. And we loved him with his low socks and massive calves, dribbling in and out of people and getting hacked down by teams, right? Like what he was doing for Villa.

Jamil Roberts (33:00)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm

Yeah.

You

Dom Okus (33:22)
Like that's what we loved from Jack Grealish and we just won't get that in a city shirt for a bunch of reasons in that the way that city plays they pin teams back, right? And so his job is to get it in the final third, try and make something happen, but really be patient and try and unlock teams. That is not what we love seeing from Jack Grealish. And so I think that's ultimately been his regression, even when they won the treble. Yeah, when they won the treble.

Jamil Roberts (33:42)
Mmm.

Dom Okus (33:51)
we weren't seeing that version of Jack Gredish. And I think that that version of Jack Gredish is probably gone now until he moves to a different team. So it's sad because we don't get to see the best of him, but obviously it's great because he's had a bunch of success.

Jamil Roberts (33:53)
Nah, nah.

Yeah, I mean, listen, any player's gonna want to travel. know, there's not many, not many players in the history of football that have done it. And he played a big role in it. And listen, like I'm one of his, one of his biggest fans. Like I would love to see Jack Grealish get his way back into the England team, you know, get, well, City team first and foremost, get his way back because I do believe that if he's firing on all cylinders, he starts on the left. I'll tell you what.

Dom Okus (34:08)
Yeah, like...

Yeah, 100%.

Yes.

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Jamil Roberts (34:33)
On this subject, a player that said in the summer or back end of last season, can't remember, that his goal was to be in the World Cup squad. Deli Alli.

Dom Okus (34:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm... No. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts (34:50)
Obviously in Como now,

is it gonna happen? I don't know, but just whilst we're on the subject of players that have just, their careers taken a tumble for whatever reason, what a player when he was his early days at Tottenham, man. What, my God. Just like the one that springs to mind is the one we flicked over his head and volleyed it in, was it against Palace, I think, yeah. Like just outrageous.

Dom Okus (35:02)
What a player. What a player. What a player, like.

against Pavis.

outrageous footballer.

Like, was showing signs of like a young, lampard, late runs into the box, scoring goals. He's just really enjoying his football, but you know, some off the pitch stuff happened to him, which is unfortunate, but I think there's just a bunch of players that are unfortunately ahead of him. But while we're in Italy, actually, someone I think who's been unfortunately overlooked is probably Tamori. I think

Jamil Roberts (35:21)
Mmm.

Mmm.

yeah, massively.

Dom Okus (35:42)
For the last five years or so, he's really been playing this trade in Italy. Maybe five years, maybe three to four. But he's been doing a great job at AC Milan and he's just basically not got a look in. I think he's been in one or two squads, but I feel like he's been hard done by it. Like, Kwanzaa getting in over him, it's like, is that fair? You know what mean? Or like a Kwanzaa, who I think is good, by the way, is like...

Jamil Roberts (35:55)
Yeah. Nice, weird one.

That's prem bias. Yeah.

Dom Okus (36:10)
I'm not sure that he's playing or was playing Champions League football. I'm like... I feel like he's been out of Dumbass and I feel like it's just because he's been out of sight. He's out of sight, he's out of mind.

Jamil Roberts (36:16)
No, I agree with you.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, another player that's another example of that is obviously to stick with kind of the Chelsea youth players that have gone over there is Tammy Abraham. You know, he was he was getting looks when he was in the Prem and all of a sudden he's had his time in Italy and is scoring goals in Italy and just ain't getting a in. And is it is it this Prem bias that the managers come in and they're really just looking in England for these players, you know?

Dom Okus (36:29)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and I

get it, right, because the premise is probably the highest level of the domestic leagues, right? So there should be a little bit of a premium. But at the same time, what about the Champions League? Like if you've got someone who's playing in the Champions League and performing well, that should probably supersede anything that's happening domestically, especially if that player isn't like the best player in their team, for example. Right. So.

Jamil Roberts (36:59)
Mm-hmm.

I agree.

Yeah, I mean, and

it goes the same way. I mean, we talk about players falling off or players, even when, say, Asancho was at his top level, he still wasn't starting games for England. And then he went to United and he started starting for England. And Dortmund's not a little club. Yeah.

Dom Okus (37:22)
Can I look him? Yeah, we're gonna look him, Yeah, it's mad.

Yeah, by any means, literally by any means. So

before we wrap up, I've got a question. Next summer, World Cup 2026 in the US, Canada, Mexico, what is your prediction of what will happen with the England team? Will we go the whole way? Will we get to the final? Will we disappoint in the group? What are your thoughts for next summer?

Jamil Roberts (37:36)
Yeah.

Yep.

Ha ha ha ha ha

See this is where the drug comes in as well as talking about the beginning because my immediate answer is we're gonna win the whole fucking thing but

Dom Okus (38:00)
Hahaha!

I love the optimism. I love the optimism.

Jamil Roberts (38:10)
But at the end of the day, it's England. They've disappointed us since birth. They get our hopes so high and we're the mugs that every single tournament, we say that we're not the contender, we say whatever, blah, blah, blah, and then it comes around and we're like melted butter in their hands and we love them so much and I always believe that they're gonna win. History will tell me that I'm a fool.

But with the players that we've been talking about in this episode, I'd see no reason why we can't win the whole thing. And with a manager like Too Cool,

feel like it could be what we need to turn the corner and actually get over the line this time. So I'm saying that we will win it. Right yourself.

Dom Okus (38:55)
Okay,

I genuinely think we will get to the semi-finals and lose. But I think we're going to play a much more attractive brand of football and it will create momentum for us to go on to the Euros and really give that a good go. I don't think where the squad is at, I just don't think we have enough world-class players to win the whole thing.

We don't have a Yamau. You know, we don't have like a player of that stature. And so I think that's what maybe some people would argue Bellenum, but so that in an England shirt, he's not showing some of the things that he showed in the Magistrate. But anyway, I say all that to say, I semi-finals, but we'll really enjoy watching England. It's not going to be this frantic thing where we're like waiting for it to crumble or control games.

Jamil Roberts (39:47)
Mm.

Dom Okus (39:54)
really give it a good goal, but just the talent that we have aren't gonna enable us to go the whole way. But I think it's gonna create a good momentum for us to go to the next tournament and win. So I'll say semifinals.

Jamil Roberts (39:55)
Yeah.

I like it. I like it. I'll take either of them.

Dom Okus (40:09)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Jamil Roberts (40:12)
I'll take

care of them. At the end of the day, one thing I am looking forward to from a personal perspective is obviously I've the last eight or nine years playing in the US and not having, I haven't watched a tournament on home soil for a long time.

So I'm excited to be in England and watching those games and hopefully watching the boys bring it home because that's one thing that makes it great, The culture that we've got with football, say what you want about it being toxic towards the team or that comes from the media. But the people, we adore those players and we want nothing more than for them to bring it home.

Dom Okus (40:38)
as well.

Jamil Roberts (40:55)
I may call me a dreamer or call me a fool, but...

Dom Okus (40:58)
You know what's funny?

We're gonna look back on this episode next year and how positively we talked about the team and then they're gonna get fucking knocked out in the group aren't they?

and we're going to be fuming. I hope not though, I hope not. No, I think we've got a good chance. Let's see what happens. Obviously this World Cup is going to be the biggest World Cup ever. We've got the new format. I think it's 48 teams now? Yeah, think it's 46 or 48 teams now. it's a big one.

Jamil Roberts (41:11)
Who are those mugs on the back stick?

It's been extended, yeah.

Dom Okus (41:37)
Let's see what happens. I'm going to try and go. If I'm still based in the US, I'm going to try and go to a few games. So that'll be great. If I can, I'll try and follow England around. And yeah, we'll just see what happens. hopefully, two tunes, not a man. Hopefully, our fortunes will change. Hopefully, we don't have to reminisce of a fucking 1966 because I'm sick of hearing about that 1966 at Wembley. Let's see what happens. Let's see what happens.

Jamil Roberts (42:01)
Yeah.

Dom Okus (42:06)
Here's to dreaming, here's to dreaming. Well if you've made it this far, thank you so so much for listening. Again, if you've made it this far that means you really enjoyed the episode. Why don't you just give us a like, give us a comment, let us know. Do you enjoy this content where it's just me and Jam? Subscribe on all things, hit the notification bell, message us personally. Let us know that you enjoyed the episode. I've had a few messages from my friends.

People that I don't know as well saying they're enjoying the content. Let us know what else you want to hear. Let us know what your favourite part is. All of that stuff we love. We just appreciate anyone that's here with us on the journey. But from me, from Jam, that's been the Backstik podcast. Fingers crossed we're going to watch this in a year's time. And we've won the World Cup. And I'm going to be drunk out of my face. But maybe that's what you're thinking. But that's been the Backstik pod.

Jamil Roberts (42:59)
Drink responsibly everyone.

Dom Okus (43:04)
I've been Tom, that's been Jam and we'll see you next time. Peace!

Jamil Roberts (43:07)
Cheers guys.