Charlie Adams - From Brentford to Colorado Springs & The Untold Truths of USL Soccer - E27

This week on The Back Stick Podcast, we sat down with Charlie Adams, current midfielder for Colorado Springs Switchbacks and former Brentford FC academy graduate.

We delve into Charlie’s fascinating football journey, from his days at Brentford and loan spells at Stevenage, to making the leap across the Atlantic with clubs like Louisville City FC, Real Monarchs, San Diego Loyal, Las Vegas Lights, and FC Tulsa. Charlie shares honest insights into the realities of life in the USL Championship, the challenges players face with club professionalism, and the vibrant soccer culture growing in the U.S.

We also discuss:

• The explosion of football in America, Wrexham’s rise, and celebrity ownership.
  
  
• Life in Las Vegas: Footballing distractions and realities.
  
  
• Why professionalism in USL needs major improvements.
  
  
• His recent move to Colorado Springs Switchbacks and aspirations for the 2025 season.
  
  
• Hilarious stories from his loan at Stevenage under Graham Westley.
  
  
• Reflections on what young footballers really need to succeed.
  
  

Packed with laughs, real talk, and behind-the-scenes stories, this episode is a must-listen for any football fan curious about the realities of playing professionally in the U.S. and abroad.

🌟 Make sure to subscribe and stay tuned for more player stories and football insights every week!

00:00 Intro: Welcome Charlie Adams!
02:56 Professional Football Clubs In London
06:02 The True Landscape of American Sports
07:40 Wrexham, Ryan Reynolds & Rob McElhenney
12:00 Charlie's Journey in Professional Football
18:00 Life in Las Vegas and Professionalism in Soccer
24:17 The Lack of Player Care in USL
32:27 Charlie's Journey to America: A New Chapter
40:30 Hilarious Stevenage Loan
51:57 Extra Time:

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Transcript

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome to the backstic podcast I'm Jamil Roberts and I'm joined here as usual by the better half of the pod Mr. Dom Ocas Dom, how are you mate?

Dom Okus (00:13)
Yeah, I'm good, mate. I'm surprised you're calling me the better half. Last episode, you were just digging me out for picking Arsenal players in the team of the season, so I'm not sure about better half, but... ⁓

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (00:21)
Yeah, I don't know what you're trying to get a move or like one of your boys is in the youth team I'm not too sure if you're trying to get in

Mikel's ear, but listen, it's not happening. Trust me. The ship sailed

Dom Okus (00:30)
I'm dead, I'm dead, I'm dead.

But no, I'm good, mate. I'm good, I'm good. Obviously, last weekend was a long weekend, so short week at work. Got a chill weekend this weekend, so looking forward to that. Champions League final tomorrow. Big game. So yeah, man, I'm excited. And I'm excited for this episode. We've been chatting off air, and I feel like I don't want to jinx it, but I feel like this is going to be one of our best ones. I feel like we're going to get some good stories. So yeah, Hat Jam, how are you, mate?

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (00:53)
Mmm.

I'm good man, I'm good. It's probably, I mean we missed out on the weekly weather report from yourself so I'll just give you a little run down into the weather in Manchester, it's crap. ⁓ But it's picked up luckily, I was just out for a beer a second ago with a couple of the lads and it picked up towards the end of the evening so I think all signs are good for the rest of the evening. But I think we'll bring in today's guest today and he's a lad who's

Charlie (00:58)
Yes.

Dom Okus (01:02)
Hahaha! ⁓

Hahahaha! ⁓

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (01:25)
He's been around the block a little bit in his career, he's played a bit in England, he's played a bit across Europe and he's found himself ⁓ bouncing around the US now. Shout out to a common friend of ours, Mr Sam Watley, who's represented the both of us in the past for connecting the two of us and making this one possible. It's my pleasure to introduce Mr Charlie Adams. Chaz, how are you, mate?

Charlie (01:30)
So. ⁓

Yeah very well mate, thanks for having me. Some nice smiles there fellas, some real good smiles. Yeah nice, yeah me too, yeah nice. Yeah I love it.

Dom Okus (01:54)
course.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (01:55)
It's a pleasure man, it's pleasure. Yeah? Yeah? It's all

Dom Okus (01:58)
Excited, excited, just excited, just excited.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (02:04)
smiles on the back stick mate, don't worry about it, don't worry about it.

Charlie (02:06)
That's it.

That's that's that's what I'm about

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (02:08)
Yeah, and it's funny, mate, like what Dom sort of said there, we was chatting off air and, you know, the vibe's good. I think, you know, at least I always like it when we get, we get, you know, we get the American boys on, we get the foreign boys on, but it's a little different when we get three English boys in the studio. And do you know what I mean? Like everyone, everyone gets it on a level and, and, and sort of, I mean, just to sort of jump into that, I mean, you know,

Charlie (02:27)
it's different mate. Gorses.

Course is, mate.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (02:38)
⁓ Growing up in like you said not northwest London, you know So so you and Dom How far is that from you Dom is that in close vicinity or?

Charlie (02:42)
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Dom Okus (02:48)
In London terms, it's the other side of the world. I'm from East London, not far from Stratford, you said that North West, like Wembley, Wildstone area. So yeah, other side of the world to me.

Charlie (02:51)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. In

Harrow, yeah. In Harrow. So yeah, yeah, is. I mean, in American terms, it's round the corner. Like, it's 7-Eleven. I'll go 7-Eleven. But London terms, yeah, it's, nah. I don't even go, I'm not going there often. I'm only going there if there's a concert on or like to the O2 or something. yeah, so quite far away.

Dom Okus (03:04)
Yeah, literally.

Same, literally same.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (03:19)
Yeah, nice. And

I feel like we've touched on it before in me, but like for our US listeners that don't really understand the landscape, like London to me, like is its own little world. Like I'm from Bristol and the Southwest feels a bit disconnected. I'm now in Manchester and I feel like the Northwest is its own little world since I've been up here. It's probably same with the Northeast, but London in itself as an individual city is its own little world. Like I mean,

Charlie (03:32)
It is. Yeah. ⁓

Yeah.

Yeah.

this.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (03:48)
How the one thing that always fascinates me as well, I mean we'll get into it in a minute But obviously Charlie you come through, know Brentford and Dom with with West Ham and Tottenham or whatever but the amount of football clubs that you two have within your close vicinity is Ridiculous to me and like that that has always fascinated me because for me it was Bristol City Bristol Rovers and that was it Otherwise, I was traveling over an hour to be an academy player in England. Like what was

Charlie (03:57)
Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (04:18)
Just how many clubs would you say for you growing up, Charlie, within say a half hour drive?

Charlie (04:26)
Yeah,

mate. so many. Obviously I played for Brentford, right? But the team that was most local to me was Barnet, which I went alone and played for. But yeah, just in my area, within the space of maybe six miles, if you're including non-league as well, Wildstone, as we're speaking about, as I said, Barnet, Brentford, QPR, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham. That's all like...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (04:43)
Yeah, yeah.

Charlie (04:52)
They're big team, you can even go out like Watford and Stevenage's and loads, loads. I think it's a problem here that that culture hasn't yet been developed. I think you can have two teams at different levels in the same city. It's quite sad that that, and I lived through that in San Diego. There was an opportunity there where obviously a lot more went into why the club dissolved than just

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (04:59)
May and that's, may imagine.

Mate, 100%.

Charlie (05:22)
being able to have two teams in the same city. But to me, if you want to develop the football culture and for it to grow and for it to really become a country where football is in the DNA, you need to have this.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (05:37)
Yeah, and Dom, was chatting about a similar subject when we had Matt Bentley on the show, weren't we? Because outside of LA with LAFC and LA Galaxy, with New York with ⁓ Red Bulls and New York City and Chattanooga with Chattanooga FC and Chattanooga Red Wolves is there another city, like city, not a state, a city in the US with two clubs?

Charlie (05:48)
Thanks

Yeah. ⁓

Dom Okus (05:53)
Red Bull is... yeah.

Miami?

I think Miami's got two. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (06:06)
⁓ Miami FC and in Miami, that's four.

Charlie (06:09)
That really doesn't work though. Like you show there that that market, this is what I'm saying is that the US is such a capitalistic approach is that people just go to the best product and people here, the sports here, people don't really care about the sports. That's the reality. Like yeah, like you can be a fan of an American football team, but they don't really care. It's not like, it's not the same intensity as

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (06:20)
Mmm.

Dom Okus (06:22)
Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (06:37)
It's backing your state

and backing your people a little bit.

Charlie (06:39)
Yeah,

it's just not the same. If there was divisions in the NBA and promotion relegation, I think if a team in the NBA got ⁓ relegated, I don't think that team is getting followed anymore. I think the only reason that Americans like the sport is because it's at the top, it's at the best, it's the best marketing, you go to the games, it's a good environment. I don't think it's actually because they truly die for the sport.

Whereas in England and Europe it's different, we do. Like, you know, in non-league, you see people travel up and down the country, thousands of people go and watch non-league games. And they don't care if it's non-league, national league, national league south. They go and watch their team and they die for their team. Like with the Torquey fans, what we were saying, Torquey fans. Or the, you know, you see even Wrexham win the national league. They still get a decent amount of fans. The fans were loving living and dying regardless if they're in the championship or in the...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (07:10)
Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, it's... Yeah, I was literally about to bring that up.

Yeah.

Charlie (07:39)
National League and I don't think it's the same here.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (07:40)
Yeah.

Mate, speaking of Wrexham by the way, I know they've just gone up to the champ. Mate, I don't know if you boys have seen it, but they are- they are talking. Like, I think they're making a move to go up in one, straight up to the prem. The names that they're talking about signing are ridic- their rate- their wage budget next season is going to be ridiculous. Ridiculous!

Charlie (07:45)
Aww yeah.

Yeah, I see, I see.

that's mental.

Their wage budget in the National League was a League One Championship budget. Like... Yeah. It is disgraceful.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (08:11)
This is disgraceful mate and the thing is

like I'm seeing I'm seeing Tom Cairney I'm seeing Ben Davis being linked there like like Premier League standard for Jamie Vardy They're gonna be a joke like ⁓

Charlie (08:20)
Mhm. Aww mate, yeah. Jamie Vardy? You Jamie Vardy?

They're gonna be class.

Dom Okus (08:28)
But

I don't think you can buy the championship though. I don't think you can do it. Like think about the teams that are coming down. Even the teams that are coming down, even if they make all those signings, are they gonna be better than the teams coming down from the Premier League? So like the Ipswich's the Southamptons.

Charlie (08:34)
It's It's all da... It's all da... It's all da...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (08:43)
But mate, I mean I get

it but momentum is a massive thing in football now I agree with you the championship compared to League one and League two is a different animal and then added to that the Premier League is a whole different beast but when it when it comes to Momentum mate that club has the whole of North America behind it ⁓

Dom Okus (08:48)
True.

Yeah. ⁓

Charlie (09:06)
It's after.

They came to, a couple years ago in San Diego, came and trained at our training ground. The Wrexham boys. So like you've got a League 2 club, Bear in mind, they were League 2. You have a League 2 club that's going on tour in San Diego, in America. Training at an amazing facility, staying in the best hotels. Mate, I'm out one night, yeah?

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (09:25)
America.

Charlie (09:35)
just for dinner, right? I don't know who I was with. Mate, I see bloody, what's his name? Paul Mullin, just in Nobu. Sat across from me in Nobu. And I spoke to him that day at the training facility and he was just like, he was there just, I guess, with a couple friends, weren't on the team. I guess he had mates out there, right? Mate, he was just sitting in Nobu just having dinner. And I guess he had concussion, so he couldn't fly back. So he was just like chilling in.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (09:43)
Hahaha

Dom Okus (09:43)
Hahaha!

Charlie (10:06)
in San Diego for an extra week or so. After that.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (10:07)
To be honest with

you, if I was at Wrexham I'd probably pull a concussion so I didn't have to fly home either and extend my time for another week.

Charlie (10:11)
Aw mate, he pulled a concussion, yeah. He pulled a concussion, mate.

Dom Okus (10:11)
Mwahahahaha!

Charlie (10:15)
Yeah, he pulled a concussion. Lovely lads though when I met them. I met Elliot Lee and Paul Mullen and that and really, really, really nice guys. they're killing it, man. They're having a great time. They're having a great time. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (10:27)
Yeah, they're flying, they're flying, they're flying. I think they're doing it

Dom Okus (10:27)
Killing it.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (10:31)
the right way as well. Do you know what mean? Like we've seen other big owners come into various levels of English football, right? But I think they're doing it the right way. think that they're not coming across, how can I put it? I think they're coming across in like a very like endearing way that makes you want to get behind them. They're not coming across as this like arrogant outfit, which is probably like down to their popularity.

Charlie (10:37)
Mmm.

Yeah.

They're not, nah.

Yeah, then I know there's been some teams that sort of been resentful towards them have been, you know, upset with but yeah, I think I think the owners are really smart. The owners are incredibly smart. And I think there was a couple teams that they were interested in buying that didn't maybe hardly pause one of them. That they were going to potentially buy prior to Brexit. And for whatever reason, it fell through. I don't think the I don't think the chairman or the owner wanted to sell it. And so they're probably kicking themselves now because

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (11:10)
Yeah.

Right.

Dom Okus (11:26)
I know, mad.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (11:27)
mate, 100%. Yeah, mate, mean, mean, Paul Mullin is more well known as a household name. Yeah, he was the one with the Welsh crest on, he? On the front. Do know what mean? Like, he's probably more well known than most, like, probably most, if not all, football league players right now.

Charlie (11:28)
Mate they got the show

like, they're all bloody celebrities man. They're all so famous out here, all them boys.

Dom Okus (11:31)
It's crazy.

Charlie (11:35)
mate. He's in Deadpool, innit? He was in Deadpool, innit?

Dom Okus (11:40)
Madness.

Charlie (11:42)
Is it Deadpool? Welshpool? Yes.

Dom Okus (11:45)
you

Charlie (11:50)
⁓ off, yeah. ⁓ for sure, yeah. He's up there. ⁓

Dom Okus (11:53)
madness.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (11:54)
It's mental world,

mate. I'd love to dip inside that world one day and have a look. ⁓ we'll bring it back to the content of the episode, And obviously this was a fantastic intro. And as we sort of stated at the beginning, we know this one's gonna be a good one, but I wanna sort of bring it back into yourself. And I know right now you've got the injury and you're coming to the end of that sort of rehab period and whatnot, and hopefully getting out on the pitch.

Charlie (12:00)
Yeah.

Go.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (12:23)
What would you make of the first couple of months with the switchbacks and obviously coming off them winning the league last year and just in general, how you feeling about the club and the season as it goes on?

Charlie (12:36)
Yeah, I think first and foremost, the club is fabulous. The problem is with USL is that because it's a franchise-based league, you can buy a franchise. The difference between the clubs can be really, really big. And that's with infrastructure, quality of infrastructure, how the clubs run, because the league doesn't really care if

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (12:56)
Yeah.

Charlie (13:06)
how the clubs run if they're paying the franchise fee, which makes sense because that's how the league's run. That's how the league makes money, right? ⁓ But this club ⁓ in particular is one that is exceptional when it comes to infrastructure, how the clubs run, what's accessible and available for the guys. There's other clubs that are not the same. I've been lucky enough in my career that

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (13:28)
I can attest to that mate

Charlie (13:35)
I haven't experienced that many of those, I also... Especially last year in Vegas, was a situation where the club got bought by a new owner and it was a huge building process. But back to the switchbacks. We haven't started off how we'd like to, but that's the reality of American soccer. When you win the championship, you have a big target on your back and it's really hard to replicate.

⁓ It's different to European football ⁓ because it's hard. It's just a different dynamic when you don't have promotion relegation. There's different teams that compete each year. But I really see why this team have been really strong in the past few years and ultimately won it last year. So ⁓ I can only be optimistic because we have really talented players, good coaching staff, good infrastructure.

I think we can do well.

Dom Okus (14:36)
Why did you end up going there? What was it about them that attracted you to them?

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (14:36)
Yeah.

Charlie (14:43)
Well, my story the last couple of years is crazy. So I left San Diego because the club folded essentially because of the MLS team coming in. And then I signed at Tulsa and the Tulsa GM at this time signed me and a bunch of other players and we had a really strong team going into pre-season. The GM left.

prior to me actually arriving in Tulsa. He left to go and work for the league and then the coach left. So both the people that signed me and few of the other players, they left. then there's this another guy comes in, an Italian guy. I forgot his name. I don't even know his name. He didn't even come to train him. So I get there, I arrive. I don't hear from this GM. And...

We train the first four days or so. Coach calls me in, his name's Mario... Mario Sanchez is his name. I forgot. That's bad of me. Anyway. And Luke Spencer is the current coach. So they call me in, they say, look, we are really happy with you this week. We need you to help with the leaders, drive the team. So I think, right, I'm in a good spot. Good first week. Next day, Charlie, come in the office. You're getting traded to Las Vegas. I say, all right.

Do I have a say in this? No. Okay. So obviously the GM didn't like my profile to play off. He said that he wasn't even, he wouldn't even watch training by the way. Yeah. He was in Italy looking at the data, right? And saying that your data is not good. So I go to Vegas. Okay. Thankfully, you know,

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (16:11)
⁓ my god.

Were you

just struggling in pre-season, that what it is?

Charlie (16:34)
Nah,

mate, I was alright. I was alright. I mean, one could trap a ball, but I was able to. Nah, nah, nah. We had a good team. We had a good team. We had a good team. And I felt like I had a good week. I had a really good week. But where I excel isn't obviously that side. So if you want to sign me as a player, then he obviously didn't. He didn't sign me, so that's why he wanted to get rid of me, which is fair.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (16:42)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dom Okus (16:43)
Pfft!

Charlie (17:01)
I don't excel if you're setting up cones and you need to get in a time or a certain speed. It was the speed, I think. Whatever. That's what he wanted to do. I think he's left there now. So he was there one year. He also took over a team in Italy and I think they're the highest spenders in the third division. I think they're in a relegation battle. So, look. ⁓

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (17:17)
Yeah, they've overhauled the whole thing.

Charlie (17:31)
Obviously that says more about him than me. But anyway, then I go to Vegas and it's a big change, right? I was told so they still had really good infrastructure and they had a really good gym, they had a really good facility and I'm actually glad they're doing really well under Luke Spencer because I really respect him and I think he's a great coach and I think he's a great guy.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (17:53)
Yeah, man, we've

had Kiliwa Medcar on the show who's recently signed there this summer and he's had nothing but glowing references about it, to be honest with you.

Charlie (17:57)
British.

He's... Nah, he's great.

He was nothing but a gentleman to me and I would have liked to have worked with him longer if I had the chance. Obviously I didn't. Then I go to Vegas this... in 2023. And by the way, what a city to live in.

Dom Okus (18:17)
You

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (18:17)
Hey

hang on let's just pause there. Let's just pause there talk about Las Vegas as a city for me

Charlie (18:20)
Lots. Far the way.

I don't even think I played football. I don't remember playing.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (18:29)
Ha

Dom Okus (18:30)
Hehehehe

Charlie (18:33)
I don't remember playing. Nah, What a city, Fabulous city. The club was difficult because they took over, right? And I think they didn't realise how much of a job it was to overhaul everything, get new things in, everything. I don't think they realised how difficult it was. But mate, what a city.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (18:33)
⁓

Dom Okus (18:36)
You

Charlie (19:03)
Unbelievable. It's just, it's really hot, mate.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (19:04)
Mate, like,

Dom, like, we've spoken about it before, and, like, actually with Mitch Osmond the other day, and so, I imagine Las Vegas being similar to what I was speaking about previously about my experience in Australia. So I said, like, when I played for, played over there for a year, I felt like I was on holiday every day. I could not focus on football because I was like, like, you know, and if I was in Vegas, that...

Charlie (19:19)
Mm. Mm. ⁓

Nah, odd. It's odd.

It's hard

mate. Yeah. Hard mate. Tell him me.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (19:33)
Chill it like I'm on the streets like and and I'm out of a job. Like

I personally I'm probably the character that needs to be in I don't know about you and Dom like let us know but I'm more of them like if I'm if Every club that I went to like I was happy in hindsight that I was in a place where I wasn't Exposed to like many distractions because it would have consumed me

Charlie (19:41)
I was in the job on the streets.

Dom Okus (19:43)
Hehehehehe

Charlie (19:45)
No.

the

in.

Dom Okus (20:03)
Yeah, you're funny. Now go on. No, no, no, you go, you go, you go.

Charlie (20:03)
For me... content. Here you go.

For me, the one thing I struggled with last year is obviously I had to make the best of, I don't want to call it a bad situation because I still respect Las Vegas and I appreciate them signing me and ultimately helping me get out of a bad situation in Tulsa. But it was where I'd been used to so...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (20:13)
Ahem.

Charlie (20:37)
so much professionalism in San Diego and my previous clubs in Salt Lake, even in Tulsa, the Louisville and ⁓ Brentford, right? I've been used to a certain standard of professionalism that last year wasn't there. And that's the reality. that in turn made it really difficult for me to be like, and I respect the coach, respect the coach, Denis Sanchez, a lot. He was so good and he...

He had to deal with a lot that he did and he was able to manage the team enough for us to get to the conference final. But for me it was so difficult to stay extremely motivated when the basics aren't even there. The basics weren't there. like, know, sometimes, bear in mind we're in Vegas, sometimes there's not water after training.

Without water. So I'm going from, we get three meals a day in San Diego. We get anything you want. We get the best of the carpet to play on every single day. We have, even in Tulsa, you have anything you want. The gym's huge. And we go sometimes off to training. We're having to go like fetch water from the cupboard that the firefighters use. Because they share like the, yeah. And so this was a problem for me.

Dom Okus (21:34)
Yeah, Matt.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (21:56)
Fucking hell Mate that's that's usl

Dom Okus (21:58)
Yeah, no.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (22:01)
for you man like this. There's like you go from one Yeah, but there's there's some that are up here, and there's some that's down there

Charlie (22:03)
It shouldn't be like that. But this is a problem, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

That's what I'm saying. And I think it's important to shine light on these issues because from the outside, a lot of the time it looks like glitz and glamour, but the reality of it is that it's difficult. And I understand that the owner, Jose Batista in Vegas, he took over a really difficult sort of club to run.

in that it had no infrastructure prior to him going there. So the little things like waters and food and this, this is obviously secondary to the big things that he needed to do. So I understand that. But I personally found it difficult to manage that. So, but the one thing we did is that we came together as a team. We came together as a, yeah. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (22:48)
But it's understandable. It's understandable coming from where like where you come from

and not just you know, you're talking just about Tulsa and San Diego but coming from Brentford who Whatever division they were in when you were coming up and then obviously five years as a pro a Club that's done things the right way and there's no No surprise that they are where they are now. Do you know what I mean? Like that they they dump

Charlie (23:16)
Exactly.

Spot on. They did everything right.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (23:18)
⁓

So from when you were a kid, you've always just experienced, or your standard has been here. So I don't blame you for feeling a bit shocked when things aren't like that.

Charlie (23:23)
Hmph.

Yeah,

I was shocked and then my way of like, I was then just away from football, I just enjoyed my life. So, like I had a lot of people, you can imagine when you're in Tulsa, no one wants to visit you. When you go to Las Vegas, I got a visitor every week. My pal, my pal that played in San Diego with me called Kyle Vasell, he came out. He came out, he came out. We have a cracking time together, mate.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (23:49)
Hahaha

Yeah, yeah.

my flatmates

tried to sign him a couple of times at Salford.

Charlie (24:02)
Oh yeah?

He's a legend, mate. He's a proper good guy. And we had some cracking times in San Diego. Cracking times. Yeah, mate, cracking times. We're talking... Go on, mate. Go on.

Dom Okus (24:18)
So on that,

no, I was gonna say on that note about, I'm sorry, just taking it in another direction. I do wanna hear about these nights, we're gonna get into them. But on that note about the USO and it kind of being this wild west of some teams looking after players and it being professional and other teams, like with the World Cup coming and all of the money and ISIS gonna come into US, do you see that changing? Or is it just because of the way that it's structured and there's no promotion or mediation and so like.

Charlie (24:25)
Cool. Yeah, yeah.

Well rest.

this.

Dom Okus (24:47)
This is just the way it is.

Charlie (24:48)
I think...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously the PA has helped. So they have the USLPA which has helped. But there needs to be... The problem is with the PA... which can happen with the PA is where the PA is so demanding, sometimes the clubs just fuck it off. They're just like, all right, cool. Well, they resent the PA. So then they end up... it ends up potentially being worse. What there needs to be is that there needs to be a certain standard throughout the league of...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (25:03)
Yeah, they re- they resent the PA.

Charlie (25:17)
of minimums like basic standards throughout the league of training facility, stadium, player care throughout the whole league. And if you don't meet them standards, fine, can't, you're even a USL League one or you're not a team. But where it's franchise based, they get money, the league gets money from the club. So for example, there's a new team coming into Detroit, right? Have you seen that? There's a Detroit team. I don't know what that's gonna be like. Maybe it's gonna be amazing.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (25:32)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Charlie (25:46)
But like you already have FC, sorry, not Detroit, Dallas, FC Dallas. There's a team coming into Dallas, Athletico Dallas. So you don't know what that market is. You remember FC, yeah, sorry, not Detroit city. No, no, sorry. That was my mistake. ⁓ In Dallas, Athletico Dallas. we'll see how that is. we don't know how it's... Yeah. But for example, like they're paying the franchise fee. The league's not going to say no. So they could provide...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (25:54)
Yes, yes, yes. Yes. So I thought you on about Detroit City. Yeah

What a name by the way, it's in Dallas, Texas.

Charlie (26:15)
the worst player care, the most minimum player care that you can potentially have. Not great infrastructure, but they have a team and they'll throw out a team and lads will play for them because lads want to play football. So we don't actually know, maybe it's amazing. Chances are it will be, but this is the problem when you have the franchise structure. You just pay whatever it is, $10 million, bang, here's your franchise. You go run it how you want, then it's Wild West.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (26:42)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie (26:44)
And some clubs do

it so well, some clubs don't.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (26:47)
It's a shame because I think the PA do have the the purest of intentions right like they they they've done and I think the biggest thing that they did to start off with Were you in the league in 2021 when the the championship PA was coming in? Yeah, yeah, so like the biggest thing they did was because you know, set the league minimums in salaries, right? And I think that was a good first step but you're right in saying that the next steps are for

Charlie (26:51)
They do, they do.

Yeah, in San Diego, yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (27:16)
setting standards for infrastructure of the club, for player care, what is required, in my opinion, to be classed as a professional footballer. I get in, fed. At least, I think at least, one thing that blew my mind is clubs that I went to that weren't providing lunch. That for me, like that blew my mind. Because how can you expect your players...

Charlie (27:19)
Yeah, for sure. ⁓

We never had it until...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (27:43)
to perform day in day out if you don't know what they're even eating away from the club like I've had lads that lived off Chick-fil-A and they're calling themselves professional footballers and then we were playing on a bobbly pitch in a porter cabin, you know, like it's It's not and and like I mean you like we've all experienced what it is to play at high-level clubs in England For example, like I can only speak for my experience but a plimifar girl like, you know, we were coming out of administration at the time

Charlie (27:43)
Mm.

Crazy.

Oh mate, nah it's not.

Yeah, it's not, it's not.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (28:11)
and I'm an under 18 there and we still got the bare minimum that is required to be a professional athlete, right? And then, you you go on and you see better, but it blew my mind when I saw worse. and it really should be at this point that I think the next big push from the league needs to be to set standards on how these clubs treat their players and run their football clubs.

Charlie (28:11)
Mm.

but.

Yeah, for sure. No, I'm

a massive advocate for that. And I sympathise with lot of boys, especially if boys are on low salaries. If you're on a low salary and you're at Louisville or a switchbacks or Colorado, it's okay because you have a place where you can improve, you get fed, you get really good care and you can then progress in your career.

Now, if you're at a place where, you know, if you're at Vegas, right, where, again, from my experience last year, early on, and it improved dramatically in a year, if you're there early on and you don't get fed, you know, and there isn't that infrastructure for you to improve, it's difficult. And it shouldn't happen. It shouldn't happen. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (29:15)
From your experience, of course.

Yeah, I agree. Dom,

I want to turn this on to you actually for a second as someone who's never actually, you know, signed a pro deal and been involved as a player in a professional club. the things that obviously the back and forth between me and Chaz that we're sort of talking about here, does that surprise you that professional footballers assigning professional contracts ⁓ that don't have these things? Because I'm sure a lot of the listeners have this

sort of outside opinion, right, of, you know, what it is to be a professional athlete and like, you know, Charlie said, the glitz and the glamour and all this and that, but does it surprise you that these things actually go on on a day to day?

Dom Okus (30:15)
So for me, no, because I'm very well aware of what the professional game is like. Obviously I've got an older brother who's five years older than me who come from West Ham and then ended up at Dagenham and Redbridge as a first or second year professional. And so I've got a little bit of an interlag outside of the Premier League, which is all of our experiences. He was at West Ham his whole time. I was at Spurs and West Ham.

Like very nice. And then you go to Dagenham Redbridge where he's on, I don't know, 150 pound a week and he's playing next to a school, training next to a school. And I'm like, oh, okay. So this is a professional footballer, but this is shit. And then obviously talking to you boys and whatnot, it's interesting. Cause I think a lot of people think professional sports is all glitz and glamour. think Charlie earlier, that's what you kind of mentioned, but it's not.

Charlie (30:49)
Okay, so hot.

Hmm.

Dom Okus (31:08)
It's like right at the tip of the iceberg. It's amazing. And then the rest of it's a graft. Now it's a graft.

Charlie (31:08)
It's not an R.

It's a graft.

Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't trade it for anything and I've had a lot of good experiences. So like, I said, I've been fortunate. I've most of the time been at good clubs and they've looked after me. So I've had a really good go. But there is some places, as you said, like if you're at a Dagenham 150 pound a week, it's hard. It's hard. But it's still, I also look at it like, look.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (31:19)
100%.

Charlie (31:42)
It's a privilege to be play football. It's a privilege just full stop to play football. Now to get paid to play football and to earn a salary and to have a career, work, you know, obviously now it's changed a little bit, but to work four hours a day, it's not bad. It gives you, and it also gives you the pathway to potentially do really well in life. And I feel I've been fortunate enough to experience that, which I'm...

Dom Okus (31:51)
for sure. ⁓

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (32:06)
Mm-hmm.

Dom Okus (32:07)
100%.

Charlie (32:11)
So football's given a lot to me. Although I haven't yet been in the Premier League and earned millions and millions, it's been very fortunate to me and it's given me a fabulous life. But it is not all glitz and gamma. And I have, in some instances, experienced that.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (32:14)
Yeah.

Dom Okus (32:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. On that note though, because I think we haven't touched on it yet, how do you end up in America? Right? Because like you didn't do the college system like a lot of people that we've had in the pod already. So how did you end up here?

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (32:27)
Yeah, yeah

Charlie (32:29)
Yeah.

mate, yeah. I'll tell you. I'll tell you.

Yeah, so I was at Brentford and I played a few times in the first team. I was in the first team for about four years. So four years in the first team. I was always regarded as a really good player, but I was at that point in my career.

Mate, I was so egotistical. I thought I was so good at football. And I thought that there were certain things that you had to do in League One and Low Championship or in the championship that I was like, ⁓ I thought I was the man. And that really, really did hurt my career in England because I felt like I was... In my age group at Brentford, I felt like I was the best player by far. And then when I got into the first team, I felt like...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (33:28)
Yeah, you're

saying these things, as in there's certain things that you felt like you needed to do, I don't want to break up the story there, but how old were you when you're having these thoughts?

Charlie (33:42)
I'm about 17, 18, but I'm going to explain to you why it's a double-edged sword for me. Because at the time the coach was Uwe Rosler and he gave him my debut, so I can't say. He's really good, really good to me, really hard on me, but he was good on me and ultimately he gave him my debut in the Football League. But my mentality then was I have to be so good at what I do that I'm... fuck everything else.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (33:52)
Yep, yep, yep.

Charlie (34:07)
I have to be good at what I do. When they're not telling me that I have to run and track the winger back, nah. I'm gonna get on the ball and I'm gonna do what I do well. I believe if I had the other mentality that it's like, right, yeah, okay, I've got to do this, this and this, I don't think I even get in the first team. But because I felt I nailed down on what I was so good at, it also hurt me because my defensive duties, I was crap. Now I'm changed a lot because I understand the other side. But when you're young, I was very driven.

very, very like, my ego was big. And so going on, I went alone to Stevenage, right? This was when we got promoted to the champ. By the way, we went to Vegas when I was, first went to Vegas when I was 19 with Brentford in the championship, when we got promoted to the champ. Mental experience. Mental experience, yeah. We go in, yeah. Yeah. But I didn't, I couldn't.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (34:56)
May the food the full squad

Dom Okus (34:56)
You

Charlie (35:05)
I didn't know what to... I couldn't believe anything like it.

Mate, we go to the first night, Hakka-san. We go to Hakka-san. Obviously I'm 19, I can't... I don't even know if I'll be stitching Hakka-san club up, mate, but I go to Hakka-san, we have dinner downstairs. And then we take the elevator, because you get up in the elevator, you take the elevator up. Mate, there's like a screen at the top with the promotion photo. All the bottle girls, like, with holding the banners, making an aisle for us.

Dom Okus (35:11)
This-

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (35:16)
What?

Charlie (35:39)
to the table. But I'm 19 in Vegas, do it like, it's mental. Like, had a, I had a, again, me being naive, mate, I had a, what's that, a nicotine pen. But me, I don't know what it is. Finished the whole thing. I go to toilet, I take it. And I'm too young to even be in a club, but they let us in because we go up the elevator, so there was no ID. Know what saying? And we were in a big, yeah. So I get him.

Dom Okus (35:57)
Ha ha!

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (36:05)
no i think that's a

Dom Okus (36:05)
Yeah.

Charlie (36:09)
I go to the restaurant. I see the boss man. Boss man chatting. Right, nicotine pen. I thought it was a, I don't know, a shisha or whatever they do. Lad, it's a nicotine pen. I finished the nicotine pen on the table. Mate, I can't move. I'm chatting to a girl next to me. I'm chatting to a girl next to me. Have you seen Wolf of Wall Street when he goes in the drool phase? He takes the Kweilund.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (36:20)
Yeah, yeah.

Dom Okus (36:27)
⁓

Yeah.

Charlie (36:39)
I'm trying to get my words out.

Dom Okus (36:40)
That's you.

Charlie (36:41)
My words, yeah. My words are not coming out. I don't realize that what I've taken. My words are not coming out. Like I'm trying to talk and my God mate, she was very pretty, girl. Very nice young lady. Very nice young lady. Mate. Mate, that's why I went and signed there. I went and looked for her for the next, I went and looked for her for a whole year last year. I went back to Hackers ad every weekend. ⁓

Dom Okus (36:48)
You

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (36:57)
You've got fond memories of her.

Charlie (37:09)
Mate, I'm trying to, I'm trying to chat to, and in my mind, you know in that scene in the movie, obviously it's nicotine, it's my first time I've ever had it, I don't do it, I don't like, and at that time I never really drank. So I'm in the club, right, and I'm on this thing and I can't chat, but in my mind, I'm clear. I'm like, okay Charlie, you need to focus, you need to just relax a little bit, now try and speak, that's what I'm thinking. And I go to speak and I'm just like, can't. And then the boys,

Dom Okus (37:27)
Mm.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (37:36)
You

Charlie (37:38)
The boys thought I was like, I must have been steaming. The boys thought I was steaming. So they're like, have water, have water. And like, I can't get up, I can't move.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (37:50)
⁓ Are you sure that pen didn't have anything else fruit in it?

Charlie (37:51)
Yeah. And then... Now, promise you.

Dom Okus (37:52)
So...

Charlie (37:58)
Mate, imagine you've never had nicotine before. Yeah, mate, and you finish a nicotine pen. It's like when you have the snooze. You know when you have the snooze, the first time you take the snooze, and you're, mate, I took the snooze the first time. I did with my girlfriend when I was young. I took the snooze the first time. I just collapsed on her bed, out. Like this. Yeah. Yeah.

Dom Okus (38:00)
Yeah, mad.

Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (38:15)
Yeah, mate, it's so funny you bring that up because I was literally just, I was

just at the pub with a couple of my friends who coincidentally, ⁓ they both used to work at Plymouth when I was in the youth team down there and they live up in Manchester now working for two different clubs in Manchester. And I was telling them the story. ⁓ He won't mind me saying is Curtis Nelson, he's at Derby now ⁓ and Nels was the, he was the captain at the time.

Charlie (38:24)
Mm-hmm.

Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Mm.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (38:45)
And I was 16, it was the first time I ever traveled with the first team in pre-season. And I'm sat at the front of the bus, you know what mean? Like I'm nervous, I'm sat there, you know, like just sort of tail between my legs, thinking about like, can't fuck up, I can't do anything, I can't say anything to anyone, blah, blah, blah. And Nels and another center-off called Peter Hartley, now Pete was like bang on the snus. Pete's a legend, but bang on the snus. They come up to the front of the bus. And I think I turned 16 like two weeks before.

Charlie (38:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (39:15)
So it me and two other youth team players that was it that they took and then everyone else was first team. And Nels just comes up to the front of the bus, pops the snus in front of me and goes, put one of these in your top lip otherwise we're telling the gaffer that you're not allowed to play today. Mate, I'm sat there, I'm like hands on head, I'm like what is this? I don't know, I can't have the gaffer knowing this blah blah blah, that's the skipper. So I've just banged it up, it's a 27 milligram, just banged it up in my top lip.

Charlie (39:19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

that's brilliant. That's brilliant. my.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Thunder? Was it Siberia? Thunder? my... God.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (39:46)
Yeah,

Charlie (39:54)
Mmm, that's brilliant. So good.

Yeah, you loved it. Yeah, mate.

mate. Yeah, I don't take them, mate, but I've had it once or twice, but the lads love it. The lads in football love it. It's nice after training, I think, to pop one in and to relax. It's nice. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (40:21)
Yeah, yeah, it's it's

it's funny but ⁓ but going back to dom's question, obviously we're we're we're sort of ⁓ we're talking about how you ended up in america and you're in you're in vegas and Yeah

Charlie (40:26)
gone.

Sorry mate, my god. Yeah,

right, right, right. then I got a loan at Stevenage, right? And I do really well there. ⁓ But mate, my time there was hilarious. What I was exposed to in League 2. So funny, like Graham Westley was our coach. Have you heard about Graham Westley? Graham Westley's like a really famous, a really famous like lower league coach. Hard mate, tough guy.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (40:53)
I know the name and

Yeah, we

had a couple of lads at Plymouth that played under him.

Charlie (41:02)
Yeah, yeah. Alright, so he is a character and I look back now at the time I was thinking, he's mile off it. But now I look back and I'm like, he, mate, I cherish that time I had there. I think I was there for three months and this is before I went out to America. I cherish that time so much. like, he would like, we were in a tough situation. We lost a few games and so he was just.

He binned off the sports scientist and he said, I'm taking the gym sessions, the coach. Mate, we'd have a, we'd do a circuit and you're on a minute, you do a minute on and you have to max out. Yeah. You have to max out on every single exercise. So like the exercise, there were like 10 exercises as well. The boys were in there just like shoulder press, maxing it out. They do this one way, like, you know, like the dorsal raises, like, you know, when they're like on your front, you're doing your.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (41:36)
⁓ no.

Yeah, yeah,

Dom Okus (41:59)
Yeah.

Charlie (42:01)
You're lifting up for your

Dom Okus (42:02)
Yeah, yeah.

Charlie (42:02)
lower back, mate. He's like... He's taking the gym session. He's in the middle taking it. Like, a minute or you've got to max out. He's like, I want to see your eyes. So I'm there, right, trying to do a dorsal raise. I can barely move. And he's folding my back in two, saying, I need to see your eyes, like a cobra. You need to be like a cobra on the weekend. So I'm like... I'm trying... I'm going like that. And I'm like...

Dom Okus (42:20)
You

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (42:22)
You

Dom Okus (42:26)
Mm.

Charlie (42:31)
And I'm like, so like a week later or so, I think I've been telling, I told the guys at Bramford what I was doing. was like, Charlie, you can't be doing that. You need to do the gym session. We give you. So I go in and I say like, Gaffer, like I need, Lavatu. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's gone. He's gone. So I've given it and he's taken it. He's like, all right, yeah, cool. We'll put it the wall in the gym. We do the match analysis. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (42:35)
You

You haven't I know what's coming here you haven't done it

Charlie (43:00)
And we lost against, I forgot who it was. We lost on a weekend and we come in on a Monday. And then we had to do seven laps around the field in under a certain time. But this is Stevenage training ground. So it's like probably like a kilometer each run. So you have to do seven on a Monday. And then we do doggies and all this. The next day we come in, do like, have a meeting. We have like, not a crisis meeting, but he's like.

What do you think we need to do? Open conversation for everyone. We're sat in a circle. Open conversation. Graham Westley here. ⁓ There me being an idiot. Yeah, I put my hand up. I said, yeah, I think we need to doing all this running in training and actually do something that's going to help us on the weekend. He's gone, well, I'll you what you need to do, Charlie Adams. You need bigger biceps.

come at my biceps. He's come at the bicep. He's gone, I'll tell you what you need. You need bigger biceps. And then he's gone and got my gym session paper that Brentford gave me, ripped it up. He's like, yeah, you need to do more. And then me and him, in front of all the players, we've gone back and forth as to if I need bigger biceps or not. I've said I don't think I do.

Dom Okus (43:55)
you

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (44:24)
This is amazing

Charlie (44:25)
I said, yeah,

yeah. And then, here it is, here our class this is, yeah? There's me thinking, I probably shouldn't have said that. Calls me to his office, he goes, fucking love that from you.

Dom Okus (44:40)
Hahaha

Charlie (44:42)
I love that from you. Honestly, I cherish my time, mate. He proper. He's proper, man. I love that. That's proper English classic, like classic stories. Yeah. mate. He goes, fucking love that from you, speaking up. Fucking love that from you, speaking up. And like, had these dark eyes, like dark eyes. He'd look at you with them eyes up close, like. was like, you were a little bit intimidated on him. You were little bit intimidated on him.

Dom Okus (44:43)
you

That's funny. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (44:50)
That is that is the most

English football story you've ever heard

Dom Okus (44:58)
Yeah, bit of bulls.

Charlie (45:13)
I look back now and I'm really happy I had that experience with him. Another one that he would do, Say we do set pieces, right? We do train on a Friday. Some of the lads would do 90 second runs after on a training on a Friday. We had a game next day. Then we'd do set pieces. Mate, the set pieces we'd do, we'd do them ages, an hour. Mate, if you were in the wall,

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (45:39)
you

Charlie (45:43)
Sometimes in the wall, right, you stand there, the boys in the wall, and I've just come from Brentford, I'm watching this, like I'm in the corner, I'm dying laughing, like, you'd have to take one in the face, like from a yard away, he'd be like, he got up the boys, said, go on, you've got to take this, and he'd get the ball, he'd throw it in your face, and like the boys would just be like, take it in the face, you know, right on the nose. Imagine that now, you couldn't do it, good job. I'm there laughing, mate, the boys taking one in the face from him.

Dom Okus (46:00)
and

You

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (46:10)
Hang on what are these lads saying when you get back in the change room after?

Charlie (46:12)
Duh!

Mate, what? We're just laughing about it, like, we're just laughing about it, man. ⁓ They all do it though, do know what mean? They say different things and they're changing them after, but we're just laughing about it. And I look back now and I'm just like, mate, what an experience I had. Anyway, I'll do well at Stevenage. I then had a fair few options in January to either go on loan or potentially sign with a team lower down.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (46:18)
Yeah. ⁓

Dom Okus (46:21)
Fucking...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (46:30)
Yeah, what a time

Charlie (46:46)
Again, where I was young, in hindsight, I should have stayed in England and played for another couple seasons, wherever it would be, in Brentford, re-signing with their under-21s. So basically what happened, I was in the first team, right? And I'd been in the first team, as I said, for three, four years. And then I speak with Lee Carlsley, who was the new under-21s coach, and he's like, I want you to stay here next year. And I was like, yeah, but I don't.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (47:13)
Yeah, yeah.

Charlie (47:16)
don't want get demoted to to under 21s. That's in hindsight, should have because they were championship team, potentially got into the Premier League, doing really well. I should have stayed there and see if I could work my way in again. And where the club was going, it was a really good place to be. But as I said, where I was like really egotistical, I wanted to go and be the man somewhere. And I didn't believe having spent three months alone in League two, I didn't believe that was probably the best for me. So then I had the

opportunity to go to Louisville City because James O'Connor was friends with my agent Clive Clark at the time. James O'Connor played for Stoke City and had a really good career.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (47:52)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we've had a lot of

good things about him.

Charlie (47:58)
Yeah, again, where I went there, I went to Louisville, it was different for me because I had just come from a championship team and although it was a club on the cusp of being really, really good, because I was there for the first year, so it was still a first year team, there were some difficulties, but I really had the idea to be really good, so you really felt that, but again, it wasn't like a championship level club.

So again, was like I sort of picked up some injuries. I don't think that helped me. I could have been quite opinionated at the time. I had a great time. Ultimately, I had a great time there. So that's how I sort of went over to the US from then. I could have stayed in England, League Two, and I decided not to. Or signed at the Under-21s.

Dom Okus (48:45)
before.

Before you come out, did you know about the level? Like, what did you think of the level?

Charlie (48:53)
Nah,

nah, thought I was just gonna, I thought I was gonna run the show. And to be fair, to be fair mate, to be fair, the first like, the first couple games mate, was like, I thought it was like, this is quite, this is quite easy.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (48:58)
you

Charlie (49:14)
⁓ But then you realize, especially as the years go on, there's some really good players. And we had some really good players. I didn't realize how good our team was in Louisville the first year. We had a really good team. We had a really good team. He was on trial when I was there. He was on trial, so ⁓ he was on trial for maybe a couple months towards the end of the season when I was there. But again, they had a really good team. ⁓

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (49:20)
Mm.

Ahem.

Dom Okus (49:26)
Did you play with pack hole?

Right.

Got it.

Charlie (49:42)
It was good man, picked up, it was like first time I had a few muscle injuries which was difficult so my time in Louisville was good but it was good for me to move away as well and then yeah, yeah and then that's sort of my journey of how I got over to the US.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (49:47)
Yeah.

Mate, I feel like this episode has just taken on a life of its own. I tell you now, and this is just a little insight for the listeners, like, know, me and Dom, like, you know, we plan, you know, the way the episode's sort of gonna go and whatever. And I swear to God, I wrote...

Dom Okus (50:02)
Hahaha

Charlie (50:07)
Cool.

Mm-hmm.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (50:17)
And you know if we're gonna communicate like sort of you know whilst you're telling a story or whatever normally I'll like write an epic write a message sort of on the episode plan because Dom has it in front of him whatever and What I've written on here is fuck the plan off. Just roll with the combo

Charlie (50:22)
this.

Dom Okus (50:33)
Hahahaha!

Charlie (50:34)
Aw mate, that's me all day. You wait till you go on a night out with me mate. You wait till you go on night out with me mate.

Dom Okus (50:37)
Yeah.

Charlie (50:41)
There's no plan.

We'll be somewhere, I'll be somewhere else. Just make sure you got my location lad.

Dom Okus (50:46)
Hahaha!

Charlie (50:49)
Get me home safe, that's all I'll ask from you. Yeah, that's that. You know

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (50:49)
I love it. I love it. I love it

Charlie (50:53)
what? You know what? That's the best thing about football for me is that I love playing football and I love training. And listen, it might come across that like, I don't think I'm one that has a bad attitude. I think I have a great attitude towards training and football. I love training and football, but I also think the best thing about it in my career, the thing that I cherish the most and I've...

being really fortunate, especially out in the US to play against players that I never ever thought I would. And to have experiences I never ever thought I would, you know, and to play against a lot of my heroes growing up, which I'm really, really fortunate for. But besides all of that, all them experiences playing against really good games and in, you know, good occasions in great stadiums, it's the relationships I've built and the time and the people I've spent, the people I've spent time with.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (51:30)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie (51:46)
off the field is what I cherish the most. That's what you miss.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (51:46)
Yeah, mate, they say that all the time. That's what you miss in it. There's like people that retire that

you miss the most. to be honest with you, mate, I think you've just kind of teed us up perfectly with kind of talking about some players that you've played against. And maybe we'll hear a little bit more in a second. But this here is our staple piece of the show. And I want to pass it over to Dom.

Charlie (51:57)
Mm. Common.

Come on in.

Alright, cool.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (52:12)
because he runs this part of show. I might as well turn my mic off and crack on. So Dom, take it away.

Charlie (52:15)
Alright, then.

Someone in love.

Dom Okus (52:20)
Yeah, so every episode we take our guests through four questions. I turn into my outer ego on the Instagram, the YouTubes and whatnot. They say I'm the host for the most. They call me Steve Harvey with a skin fade. So I'm gonna take you through four questions real quick fire. The first one is who's the best player you've played with?

Charlie (52:20)
Someone in love.

Mm-hmm.

Gone. Yeah.

⁓ James Tarkowski

Dom Okus (52:53)
Okay. Talk to us a little bit about Great Centre Half, England Cap.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (52:54)
Great choice.

Charlie (52:56)
⁓ Yeah, just

think, yeah man, for me, I played with him obviously at Brentford and he was really young then, he had... In the Premier League, you don't understand how good of a football player he is. He is an amazing football player. With his technical ability, especially, just because he's big and he gets the most clearances or the most defensive actions in the box or whatever the stats are, ability-wise, incredible.

And obviously I say him because he's gone on to probably have one of the best careers out of the players I've played with. But you really saw then that he had a really good temperament, cracking lad. Really, really great guy. Really nice to meet. And just amazing ability, just great ability. And he's grown to be such a good player now in all aspects of his game. And I think he could...

easily be playing for a team higher up in the Premier League but he's doing so well at Everton anyway so I would say him.

Dom Okus (54:01)
Yeah,

Sick, sick, sick. All right, opposite end then. Who's the best player you've played against?

Charlie (54:09)
So a couple of guys have asked me this and...

There's two ways to look at it, it's either the name that you play against or actually the best player. Because I'll have two, probably two answers. I'd say, biggest name, probably, maybe...

Dom Okus (54:22)
So for it.

Charlie (54:31)
Maybe Gareth Bale. Gareth Bale. Really good. ⁓ There's been... Yeah. Really good. Nah, yeah, yeah. Obviously, really impressed with him. Of course, he's amazing football player, but when you see him up close... We played Spurs in pre-season at Brentford. And when you see him up close, he's a machine, ⁓ His biceps...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (54:37)
Really good, actually. Yeah, really good.

Dom Okus (54:38)
Just really good. Yes, he's decent. He's

all right.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (54:48)
He's gone.

Charlie (55:00)
Graham Westley can't say anything about his bicep His bicep, mate. He would have loved him, mate. His bicep, incredible. ⁓ But the best player, ⁓ Ravel Morrison.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (55:01)
He would have loved him.

Dom Okus (55:02)
HA!

yeah. Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (55:18)
Wow, what a

Charlie (55:18)
different levels bro

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (55:20)
shout.

Charlie (55:21)
at West Ham I'm telling you mate I'm telling you I don't know I know he's in Dubai right now but and I don't know him personally but

Dom Okus (55:22)
Yeah.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (55:29)
He's

playing with Charlie Matcha, isn't he? One of Yeah, yeah. Yeah, precision, yeah, yeah.

Charlie (55:33)
In the box? Yeah, yeah. He is. It's precision FC. ⁓

Precision. Antonio. Next level. Like, and I've played against a few good players, but him? Different. Like, out here we played against, you know, Jogbaar, and in San Diego we played against Marco Royce, and you expect them to be really good, and they are fabulous. But, him was...

Dom Okus (55:51)
Amazing.

Charlie (56:03)
Serious that day we played we played against West Ham at Brentford at Griffin Park and mate I'm telling you He was doing crazy stuff like crazy stuff and like he just it just felt like he didn't care So like one of the boys clamped him mate He was the best player on the pitch by far But one of the boys clamped him and then mate you just followed that boy around for the next like five minutes waiting for him to get the ball so I could start clamp him back. He didn't even deal with being in position

Dom Okus (56:04)
different player.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (56:28)
Yeah

Dom Okus (56:29)
Mm.

Charlie (56:32)
He wasn't even trying to get on the ball, he waiting for this boy to get the ball back to clamp him. But ability-wise, I'm telling you, he was the real deal, When I've seen someone up close, you've come up and you've played against someone up close and you're there with them, you're like, wow. Top. Yeah, yeah. Nah, it's good, Nah, it's good, it's good. But that's the reality of football is that...

Dom Okus (56:32)
You

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (56:36)
⁓ mate, that's so good, that's so good.

Dom Okus (56:36)
Mm.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (56:42)
Yeah.

Dom Okus (56:43)
sick.

Yeah, I'm a West Ham fan, so seeing them up close and personal, like, the things you can do with a football, it's just not normal. It's not normal.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (56:50)
Yeah.

Charlie (57:00)
Obviously, look, maybe he's made some... I'm not to tell him what the right decisions are to make, but the reality of football is that doesn't give... Football doesn't owe you anything. in my mind, he's still had a great career. He's had a great career, Yeah, he could probably played for England and everyone says he underachieved, but it's so hard because there's so many good players. And so, ultimately...

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (57:15)
made such a good way to put it.

Dom Okus (57:24)
Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie (57:28)
He changed his stars and his trajectory of where his life would probably be. And fair play to him. To me, he's done well. And anyone that's a professional and had a career has done well, because it's so hard. Everyone wants to play.

Dom Okus (57:35)
I agree.

I agree, I agree, I agree. Right, the next one that always trips up all of our guests.

Charlie (57:43)
Cool.

Dom Okus (57:48)
You're going on a night out. You've got to pick three teammates, past or present, for this night out. Who are you picking and why?

Charlie (57:59)
⁓ Right, I'm picking the first one. Kyle Oversill. My pal from San Diego, And that's my good pal, right? So him? Mate, we've got... Some of the stuff throughout the years we've done, well, yeah, mate. I'm worried, mate. I'm worried, what I say, because I'll be in prison by the end of this, by the time this episode finishes. ⁓ mate.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (58:06)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dom Okus (58:17)
Yeah

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (58:22)
It's the first time I've heard him stutter

in an hour

Charlie (58:28)
I I did. I did.

We'd be in prison, mate. Nah, mate, we're all over the shop, me and him. We'll be one minute, we're in one's tequila bar, one's tequila bar, a little side street bar in San Diego, right in the center of the dance floor. Next day, we're in the karaoke bar. Mate, I'll be lying to you if I told you we didn't get a sandinavation.

Dom Okus (58:32)
Haha!

What song? What song?

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (58:56)
Mate, I love that.

Charlie (58:59)
He would sing, ⁓ he would always sing ⁓ Red Hot Chili Peppers. ⁓ Red Hot Chili Peppers he would sing. Cause you gotta play the crowd Dom. That's what you're not understanding mate. You gotta play the crowd, You know what mean? You gotta know, you gotta know like, you gotta know. If I'm in the Barcelona room in OCEs, I'm not playing Red Hot Chili Peppers mate. I'm playing, I'm playing Popcorn. I'm playing Popcorn. Or Elephant Man.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (59:06)
oof alright

100%, 100%, mate.

Dom Okus (59:10)
Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah? Nah, no chance. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. ⁓

Charlie (59:28)
If I'm in the San Diego Dive Bar

I'm playing Californication, other side. Me? Harry Styles, as it was. Stunned Innovation. Yeah. The other one, the other one. Mate, Rob Keenan. Rob Keenan played for Rangers, Watford, Rangers, Wigan. ⁓

Dom Okus (59:35)
There you go.

Okay.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (59:39)
I like it. I like it. I like it a lot.

Charlie (59:56)
Watford Rangers Wigan, yeah, just had a great career. Brentford was with me on loan. Then he came out here, played for Orange County. next, next level man, Sad. It's too like, next level mate. Next level, like, yeah. I'll see, I'm telling you, I'll go on a night out of him. Mate, we went to, we actually went to Tulum together, mate. Went to Tulum together. Mate, I see him the first day.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:00:06)
you

Dom Okus (1:00:09)
Just see the

grin on your face. ⁓

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:00:13)
you

Bye.

Charlie (1:00:26)
I didn't see him the rest of the time. We were just on a joke level. We'd gone out one night. Somebody other boys, they're bringing their... It was Pankun and Tulum. So they're bringing their best blubber. They think, we're going to wear the Little El Chapo T-shirt. We've gone into our hotel, by the way. We bought another hotel just for that night.

Dom Okus (1:00:27)
No.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:00:30)
Yeah

Aww

Charlie (1:00:56)
just so we could be close to the bar, because we knew we'd be stumbling back. And on them roads in Tulum, mate, so bouncy and choppy, so we think, we don't want to be Ubering back to our hotel. We're getting to that, we're getting the hotel right next to the joint where we're going. We've gone into the hotel, mate, you know, like in hotels, they offer you like gowns a lot of the time. Mate, this hotel, it was in the bathroom, there was ponchos that you wear after, after the...

After your shower. We've just said, let's fuck off. Let's get the ponchos on. Let's get the ponchos on and get it out. We're out in the ponchos and we've got like a body paint all over us from the day session. So we had a day session. It's all in the off season by the way. So not in season this. But we've got body paint for the day session. Seen the ponchos, gone out in the ponchos, mate. ⁓

Dom Okus (1:01:33)
You

Bye!

Charlie (1:01:56)
Just crack on, crack off. Order the Tomahawk, Tomahawk to the table, get a free AM in the nightclub. That's the level, mate, that we're on. All sorts, guy, hang on.

Dom Okus (1:01:58)
God.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:02:05)
You

Dom Okus (1:02:05)
You

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:02:08)
Superb superb

Charlie (1:02:09)
Yeah, while we're wearing ponchos, mate. Yeah,

Dom Okus (1:02:09)
I can't do it.

That's hilarious. I think you've named two. So who's the third?

Charlie (1:02:14)
mate, yeah. Two, ⁓ the last one, Joao Plata. He played for Real Salt Lake. He was in Salt Lake with me. Unbelievable guy on a night out. But with him, mate, like he, Ecuadorian guy, And you know, like the Central South Americans, they know how to party.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:02:37)
They can have

it.

Charlie (1:02:39)
They know how to party. He was different as well. He was different breed. When you go out with him, me and him are quite small. But think he had a little bit of a little man syndrome.

Maybe I do as well. Maybe I do as well, but he, he, he, when we went out, he had to have the best of everything. He couldn't have anything short. He'd have his own turaz mate. He had a chef. He had his power. That was a chef. Cooking, cooking, cooking, cooking us up a, cooking us up a, a, a chicken with the, with the, with the plantains at 2 AM after the night out. And it was his power. was unbelievable.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:03:14)
Unbelievable.

Charlie (1:03:25)
Great lad, great lad, yeah, great. Honestly, we went to Vegas together as well, which was... Oh, we went to Vegas together.

Dom Okus (1:03:25)
I'm

That's hilarious.

That line up seems like pure chaos.

Charlie (1:03:36)
Yeah, it's a great

line-up. The night's out of the best, mate. The day's out with the boys. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Dom Okus (1:03:40)
All right.

Yeah, days you'll never forget.

Days you'll never forget. Right, a little bit more wholesome lead to wrap us up. What's the biggest achievement in your career so far?

Charlie (1:03:51)
Go, go.

⁓ The biggest achievement for me is not something tangible for me. The biggest achievement is I know how hard football is. I know how many times it can break your heart and how difficult it is to continue to keep going. My biggest achievement is that regardless of the good times and the bad times, I've been able to keep going, ⁓ continue to try and improve, continue to try and be better.

⁓ and enjoy the process of all the difficult things. I think that's the hardest thing to do. It's difficult to judge the success of the winning trophies or the winning or good games, but the real success is to keep going without when even things are against you and when it's really tough. I would say that. I would say just the...

that the essence of to keep trying is my biggest achievement for sure.

Dom Okus (1:05:01)
Sick, sick, sick. man, like being a professional footballer is not easy, man. At any level, it's not easy. So the fact that you've made it this far and like you said, with all the turns and everything you've kept going is salute to you, Yeah, Yeah.

Charlie (1:05:05)
It's not. It's not man. Yeah.

Yeah, it's odd. It's odd. And injuries, I've had a fair few injuries. but...

Yeah, it's about continuing to... That's it, mate. That's it. Just try try your best. Doing your best and... And, ⁓ Proving all the naysayers that say, no, you're not gonna do this, or you're done, or this or what that. Yeah. I think that... That's the biggest success for me.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:05:19)
Come out the right side.

Dom Okus (1:05:36)
Sick,

sick. Well, I think that's a perfect place for us to close that extra time. And I had it back to Jammer to close us out.

Charlie (1:05:41)
Bye.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:05:44)
Yeah, mate. Top class as always, mate. And yeah, I think that wholesome note is if there's any young listeners listening to this one, think that's an important message that Chaz has just put across there. It's not easy. There's going to be ups and downs, not only just in football, but in life as well. So keep going, keep working hard, and you'll get there in the end. Enjoy it along the way, absolutely.

Charlie (1:05:44)
Cool.

Listen and enjoy mate, enjoy. I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what mate,

yeah. And if you boys, if you boys are ever over here, Dom, if you're ever in off season, if you're in Vegas mate, we'll have another couple of stories lad. I know a spot or two mate, I know a dark alley or two mate, yeah. Yeah I'll do. Alright mate, class.

Dom Okus (1:06:23)
Alright, um, yeah. I'm definitely done. Definitely done.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:06:27)
Hey, Charlie, Charlie, if you happen

to get injured in two weeks time, I'm in Nashville for ten days.

Charlie (1:06:34)
You're a natural mate, yeah. Nah, nah, I'm not planning to get injured mate. I'm not planning to get injured mate. mate. Don't you be chucking that one out for me mate. Don't you be chucking that one out there. You're sounding... You're painting... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Don't ⁓ paint that picture for me.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:06:39)
Nah, no no no no no no.

HAHAHAHA

I'm joking Gaffer is gonna be fit ⁓

Brilliant brilliant now, but as Dom said I think it's a good time for us to close this one out just purely because it's It's it's been it's this arguably and I say this With respect to every one of our guests, but I genuinely think this is one of my favorite episodes that we've done

Charlie (1:07:00)
Bye.

Cole, Cole.

Dom Okus (1:07:16)
100 %

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:07:18)
And I think it's for the reasons I said earlier on man, like the fact that midway through like I just we just we just went with it the conversation took on a life of its own and and like mate I just really appreciate you taking the time and jumping on the pod man because you know, we're We're trying to do things the right way. We're trying to do things in a way that makes lads feel You know, we're both players man meet myself and Dom and and and we're just we're just lads that

Charlie (1:07:29)
white car in it mate.

Yeah, good.

There we are. Yeah, there you are.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:07:48)
that just wanna chat about football and chat about life in general and the journey along the way. And you've been a brilliant testament to that. So appreciate it, mate.

Charlie (1:07:53)
enough

Cool, mate. Cheers, lads.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:08:01)
⁓ But with that, I've got to do a bit of housekeeping for the listeners because you're an hour and eight minutes into the show and if you haven't already on the YouTube go and click subscribe on all the socials at the Backstik pod. Please go subscribe, like, leave a comment. Who do you want to hear from next? One thing that I didn't do and I hope that he's listening to this is to actually shout out a friend of the pod, Jonas Philberg. We've had him on the pod before.

Dom Okus (1:08:01)
videos.

Jamil Roberts & Dom Okus (1:08:30)
So you can mention that one tomorrow that you jumped on the show. Top lad. yeah, just shout out all the listeners as well that have made it this far and that have been continuing on the journey. know, we're 25 episodes in now and we have no plans on stopping. with that, from myself and Dom, once again, Charlie, thanks ever so much for coming on the show. To all the listeners that have made it this far, from the three of us, thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next time.

Charlie (1:08:30)
Mmm, great guy.

Dom Okus (1:08:59)
Peace.